Whenever some politician finishes a speech with “God bless America”, like humble sheep the populace nods.
But what does “God Bless America” mean? Is this statement of fact or a request?
If it is a statement of fact and there is some benevolent deity hovering around in the clouds, why would this deity single out the USA and not Iceland, or Thailand or Rwanda for the grand gesture?
And if it is just a request, why not just say God Bless Us All instead of just America? Is the implication that God can damn all the other countries to hell for all we care?
And how did this phrase become quasi-mandatory political rhetoric in a country that was founded with the intent of separation of church and state?
It’s called the formulaic subjunctive mood. Like bless you, God Save the Queen, or Peace be with you, it communicates a wish or desire rather than a demand as with the imperative mood.
It’s more of a request, but not exactly. It’s more of a “I hope he blesses us.” type thing.
Who said anything about singling out the USA? Just because an American politician asks for a blessing, doesn’t mean that a politician from another country can’t ask for a blessing for their country too.
This seems kind of silly. It would be like me posting a thread asking, why do Brits only say God save the Queen? Why not, God save all of the nobilities, Presidents and Priministers of every country?
Also, if I tell a woman that she looks good, is it implying that all the other women look ugly? No, of course not.
The so called “Separation of Church and State” doesn’t take away a politician’s right to free speech. A politician is still free to express their religious beliefs. What the politician can’t do is things like pass laws, rules, and regulations favoring or opposing any religion, nor can they establish a new one. There’s also a bunch of other stuff that they can or can’t do, depending on the situation, but it’s complicated, and it’s 11:54 and I’m tired, so I’m finished typing now.
It’s more of a request, but not exactly. It’s more of a “I hope he blesses us.” type thing.
Then say that, don’t imply it.
Who said anything about singling out the USA? Just because an American politician asks for a blessing, doesn’t mean that a politician from another country can’t ask for a blessing for their country too.
But most other countries don’t do it. Even terrorists’ last words are Praise Allah, not Allah Bless Iraq
This seems kind of silly. It would be like me posting a thread asking, why do Brits only say God save the Queen? Why not, God save all of the nobilities, Presidents and Priministers of every country?
Also, if I tell a woman that she looks good, is it implying that all the other women look ugly? No, of course not.
And you have a good point, why the fuck should God save the Queen? She may be a nice lady, but so is my aunt Margaret who is 81 and coming to visit me next week. Save her too.
The so called “Separation of Church and State” doesn’t take away a politician’s right to free speech. A politician is still free to express their religious beliefs. What the politician can’t do is things like pass laws, rules, and regulations favoring or opposing any religion, nor can they establish a new one. There’s also a bunch of other stuff that they can or can’t do, depending on the situation, but it’s complicated, and it’s 11:54 and I’m tired, so I’m finished typing now.
Express all the religious beliefs you want, but not when you represent the USA in speeches for the voting public. Chat your lips off in church.
But it does say it. The problem is that it is in subjunctive mood which is a form you don’t correctly recognise. It is a somewhat anachronistic use of the subjunctive in English but it is quite clear and implies nothing in the sense that you use implication.
If you’ve learnt much German in Berlin (or NYC, Vegas or LA) you’re already familiar with the some of the subjunctive’s other uses.
Where do you get this notion? I think this is one of the more interesting and infuriating myths of American history. The vast majority of the colonies in America had official state established churches for most of their history, some surviving well after the retification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
The Puritans came here, not as the story goes for freedom of religion, but to escape to a land where they could practice their hard-nosed religion without being corrupted from it. Several of the New England states began as off-shoots from Massachusettes colony because their respective founders were kicked out for not upholding the religion properly.
Religious movements (The First and Second Great Awakenings, for example) have created the society that has become America. Many of the great social movements in our history (abolition, for one) have had their base in the religious views of their leaders.
Yes, we can all spout off this phrase of a “wall of separation” between church and state, and some of us can even name the source. But having this phrase floating around does not make it true. I am not arguing that we should have some great national religion, or that we should all bow and pray to some god or another. But the reality of American life, society, and history does not support any concept that our politics and government is, in any way, separate of the concerns and beliefs of religion.
Right. The colonieshad established religions. The Constitution that founded the country prohibited such establishment. The fact that these government established churches continued after the Constitution was adopted does not change the fact that they were contrary to the document the country was founded on.
All true. But once again this is about the colonies. These are the very ideas that were rejectedby the founders of the country.
And that there had been establishment of religion in the colonies and this idea was rejected by the founders of the country would seem to back up DMark’s “notion”.
Well, if you want to get into this, to the founders (at least as far as there can be considered a uniformity of opinion) the Constitution held nothing contrary to a State having an established religion. Application of the BoR against the states was not a widely held view (if it was held at all).
Even if we accept your statements at face value, it does not support the vew in the OP. The country was not founded upon the idea of separation of church and state. Even to the extent that this idea is embodied in the First Amendment, it is only one part of a number of ideas in the First Amendment, let alone the rest of the BoR.
But even if we disagree about these points, it is irrelevant. There is not even an appearance of the establishment of a religion when the President ends a speech with “God Bless America” or an equivalent.
Furthermore, the point of my first post was not to suggest that an establishment of religion was a good thing. Rather, it was to point out the development of American society and politics in such a way as to show that there is, indeed, a reason that presidents use the “God Bless America” line. It is a part of our national psyche, and it has been from the start.
The way Bush says it, I take it as an order. “Y’all better bless us, now, y’hear? Nice little church y’ got there down on Fifth Avenue. Shame if somethin’ happened to it . . .”
Why does this make them humble sheep? Maybe they, y’know, honestly agree with the sentiment. It’s hardly a controversial thing to wish. In fact, I think politicians close speeches with “God Bless America” because they want to end on a positive, non-partisan note that just about everyone can get behind. The majority of Americans believe in God, and those who don’t can still endorse the idea that it would be nice for our country to be blessed. (Even if, when they hear a politician say it, they mentally add “And one way He could bless us is by keeping you out of government.”)
How could that, grammatically, be a statement? Wouldn’t that be something like “God blesses America” or “God has blessed America?”
Must… resist… temptation to use rolleyes smiley…
So, anytime anyone asks God to bless someone or something, they’re essentially cursing everyone else?
People have been mentioning God in public speeches since the days of the Founders themselves.
As noted above, “God bless America” is perfectly grammatical English. It’s a form of the subjunctive, a verb mood that is used to express certain uncertainties, desires, or conditional statements.
“I want that he be here.”
“If I had known then what I know now, then I would be acting differently.”
“Were I president, things would be different.”
“God bless you.”
“Come what may, I will be on that plane tomorrow morning.”
The subjunctive is dying a slow death in this language (except in the conditional), but if you knew any other Germanic or Romance languages, you’d know that it’s alive and well elsewhere.
