God was looking out for some, not others?

Great Debates
21

I may have missed it, but I saw no one in this thread take the stance of “there is NO God.”

If that were the case, this tragic event, as vile as it was, would at least be LOGICAL. A group of humans succeeded in taking advantage of other humans in such a way as to not be caught by the CIA before it happened.

No higher power to prevent it, no higher power to cause it, all created by us mortals.

I know it’s an uncomfortable thought for many, but it’s at least something that should be considered in a forum that usually looks at every angle.

22

I was implying that in my previous post.

23

It’s just as absurd to say, “their time’s up.” No, it’s even MORE absurd. It’s more than absurd.

That completely alleviates the killers from ANY responsibility for what they’ve done.

24

“Free will”.

25

Not at all. It simply means that God allowed the death to occur, for reasons that may not be clear to us right now. It does not mean that the culprits had no culpability in the matter.
Have you ever read the classic science fiction story “A Sound of Thunder”, by Ray Bradbury? In this story, a man travels to the prehistoric past and accidentally steps on a butterfly. Upon returning to the present, he finds that the world has been changed beyond all recognition. Bradbury’s story, while fictional, illustrates that events in our time can have repercussions which may not become evident until many years down the road.

It seems to me that a sovereign God may allow certain disasters to occur, knowing that these will produce some ultimate good, somewhere down the road. That good might take days to manifest, or it might take centuries. For that reason, we should not be quick to judge that God was wrong to allow a disastrous event to occur.

Of course, the humans behind this disaster do not have such prescience, and so they can not be absolved in the same manner.

26

It is really a problem? Only if one is unwilling to consider the possibility that God exists.

Typically, questions like “How could a loving God hava allowed this?” are used to argue that God is not loving, or that he does not exist. That argument is only valid, however, if the questioner can see the ENTIRE tapestry of time and space, and ALL the future repercussions of a given event. Basically, it assumes that we humans have the cognitive faculties of a sovereign god. THIS is an assumption which I am unwilling to grant.

27

I am so tired of hearing the “well you don’t know everything God knows” rationalization…

28

I don’t mind it, as long as the speaker dosen’t turn around nad claim that they do no that God saved Bob from going to work on Tuesday. Either god is ineffable, or he isn’t.

29

And if God is ineffable, then we cannot know Her purpose or Her plans, and thus, we cannot know if She will reward or punish us in the afterlife (if there is an afterlife).

So there’s no functional difference in believing in an ineffable God, and believing in no God at all.

30

Folks, God wasn’t looking out for anyone, and He also wasn’t not looking out for anyone.

I have always contended that God is like a clockmaker - he created the Earth, put life on it, and from there on, He lets it run itself.

God doesn’t “pick and choose” who lives or dies, he doesn’t choose one sports team over another, he doesn’t choose one winner of the millions who pray to win the lottery, he doesn’t factor in on whether someone fails or pases a test in school.

In other words, He pretty much has nothing to do with anything.

This is why I have never liked “why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?” Answer: He doesn’t, either way. (“Karma” is also a bunch of silliness but that’s a different story.)

It’s always great to have faith - but God doesn’t have any factor in anything bad that happens to us, or anything good either. It’s as simple as that.

  • Steven Fallon
31

For some people, it was there time. If Bob lives it wasn’t because he was better than Jane, it just means that it was Jane’s time to go. God doesn’t have a secret plan. Those who believe in the word of God know these things are to come. It is very unfortunate that we lose people near and dear to us. Good does not kill people, evil kills people. God is Good. God will stop evil when it is time.

32

Amen

33

I continue to stand by my opinion that the universe is the tv God left on when he exited the room.

God isn’t dead, but probably busy with other things(planning armegedon is probably time consuming,) or worse yet disheartened that he can’t back out of his promise not to destroy the world with again with a flood. Therefore it’s up to people to enact as much positive change in the lives of others as they can, because believing “God will take care of everyone” is a pleasant platatuide but not as effective.

34

JerseyDiamond said:

Wow. Thanks for an entire message full of nothing but meaningless rationalizations.

35

With all due respect, can you deny that we DON’T know all that he knows? And can you deny that if he knows something we don’t, he might choose to act in ways that we don’t expect?

One might be tired of hearing this “rationalization,” but that doesn’t make it incorrect.

36

Back in 1984, a noble man by the name of Benigno Aquino Jr. was killed on the tarmac of the Manila International Airport. This was back when Ferdinand Marcos was still in power, and Aquino was one of his most dangerous foes. All signs pointed to this being the handiwork of his supporters in government.

His family and friends doubtlessly wondered why God allowed this tragic death to occur, yet through this event, an entire nation was galvanized into ousting Marcos from power. For the first time in 20+ years, the nation had democracy rather than a dictatorial iron-fist rule. Aquino’s death was tragic, but through it, an entire country was freed and countless lives were doubtlessly saved.

In a similar vein, a government mess-up caused me to lose my job back in 1998. I had to wait 6-1/2 agonizing, income-less months before I could return to my employer. Upon receiving the news, I was crestfallen and asked, “Why, God? Why?”

I spent those 6-1/2 months volunteering at a local charity, where I learned the ins and outs of its operation. During that time, I learned far, far more about the workings of a public charity than I could have possibly imagined. Shortly after I went back to work, the director of this charity announced that she needed to leave her position, due to some family problems.

This left the volunteers stunned, for there was nobody who could adequately take up the slack – or so it seemed. The director pointed out that I already knew most of what was required to keep that center running. I was able to pass that knowledge on to the staff, the volunteers and the board of directors, thereby keeping this charity alive.

Looking back, I’m glad that I went through that painful time of joblessness. It didn’t make any sense to me at the time, but a great deal of good eventually came out of it, in ways that I could never have anticipated.

I think the point is that we should not be quick to label tragedies as God’s “mistakes,” or signs of his inaction, or signs that there’s no God. We don’t always see the whole picture. That statement is surely offensive to some, but there’s no denying that it’s true.

37

Not true. One can firmly believe that God exists WITHOUT claiming to have any idea what his plans are. I know several people who believe that someone must have created the universe, but who believe little more than that. They plead ignorance of theological specifics, but they also argue vehemently against the possibility of there being no god whatsoever.

Furthermore, we can know the purpose or plans of an infinite diety – IF that diety chooses to reveal these plans. One might argue about whether God has provided such a revelation, but the fact remains – it IS possible to know such things, if God communicates them to us and if we’re seeking them attentively.

38

Jubilation said:

If there were a God, no, I could not deny that he would know things I don’t. But when things like this happen, believers – rather than do the difficult thing and question their belief – just cite this “we can’t understand” and continue on their merry ways, happy to rationalize it all away.

The problem is that this little statement can be used for just about anything. I’ve seen it used by believers that UFOs are alien beings, saying we can’t understand why they fly huge distances to zip around our skies with their lights on because, well, they think of things differently than we do and we shouldn’t question their motivation.

Similarly, somebody could say that we shouldn’t question the motivation of the terrorists, because maybe they knew things we don’t and therefore might choose to act in ways we don’t understand.

It’s a rationalization that is used so a person doesn’t have to actually think.

39

Many of you know that I’m as atheistic as they come. But Libertarian’s explanation of the “why suffering?” question seems to make sense to me (from the point of view of assuming that there is a God).

As I remember (and attempting to tell it in the style of Lib), he always says that life on earth is but an imperfect blip. It is the eternity in God’s presence that is the true Life. In this context, giving up the earthly flesh 20 years sooner than would otherwise be the case is not a cause for sorrow and to call God evil because of it is to miss the point.

Personally, I prefer to not believe in God due to the absolute lack of any evidence or need to use supernatural explanations rather than because of specious logical arguments. YMMV, of course.

pan

40

JTC, you don’t know everything that I know, but If I went over to your house and dug up your garden, would you let me use that as an excuse?