Goddammit! Enough with this petty divisiveness!

The BBQ Pit
1

I’ve never been very eloquent in expressing my thoughts, so I apologize in advance if I said something truly stupid. I just had to get this off my chest.

Here goes…

Would this have happened if Gore was in office? Who the fuck knows. Does it matter?

Should we attack Afghanistan? Who the fuck knows. I sure don’t.

Is Bin Laden responsible? I don’t have a fucking clue, and neither do you.

Are Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell assholes? Well, yes, but who the fuck cares?

There is so much “what if” going on right now, it’s making me nauseous. What if we had more security on the planes and in the airports? What if we didn’t support Israel? What if my mom had balls, would she be my dad? Dammit, you can’t learn until you make a mistake. Instead of blaming everyone and anyone for this shit, why don’t we just learn from it and resolve never to let it happen again?

I respect everyone’s right to have an opinion, but c’mon. It’s almost an embarassment to see people criticizing Bush right now. It IS an embarassment to see people crying about how Bush didn’t mention their country in his speech in addition to Britain. My God, what do you want, a pat on the back for all the good things you’ve done in response to this crisis? All of us here in America appreciate what you’ve done, and you have our respect and gratitude. Now, can you quit your bitching and get on with the business of getting these terrorists and, not coincidentally, protecting yourselves? This attack has affected us all, not just those of us in America. Can we all just put aside our nationalism for a while and come together for this fight?

After this is all over, bitch to your heart’s content. But now is not the time. Now is the time for solutions to the problem, not pissing and moaning about the President’s speech or attacking religious beliefs.

Why is it that some people can’t or won’t understand that?

2

What’s wrong with that? In case you hadn’t noticed, this is a rather major event in American history (particularly recent history) and how it will be dealt with is a matter of no small concern to a lot of people. Some folks don’t think it’s being dealt with in the right way, thus comes criticism.

“Don’t be so divisive!” is usually doublespeak for “Shut up and do things my way, dummy!” Sorry bud, that doesn’t fly. The fact that the recent event has been unpleasant does not allow anyone to act unchecked. If anything, we need checks and debate now more than ever.

3

Hear, Hear.

Former Corporal, USMC.

4

Well gee, what did you expect on a message board? A bunch of blank posts? I’ll give you a hint- this is where people go to discuss pertinent issues regarding the world around them. I think this is pretty damn pertinent, so we discuss it.

Stepping back from a situation and examining it, daring to ask questions and formulating opinions and decisions is not divisiveness.

5

My hear, hear was for the Airman. I may not agree 100% (nothing really wrong with pats on the back) but I don’t think that asking for unity is necessarily a call to stamp out debate.

6

I never said we didn’t. Further, I don’t have the right or the wrong answer to the problem. So how about we band together and put aside our little political views for a while and come up with some solutions? Snide comments about “El Presidente Jorge” (ahem, Chas.E) are not part of the solution. All they do is facilitate pointless and unproductive tangents.

Frankly, I didn’t think that George was doing that great a job until now, and I’m a conservative. But that is irrelevant, except to clarify my position that our particular political leanings should not matter right now.

What should matter is a)What do we do now?, and b)What measures should we take to ensure that this never happens again?

Everything else is silly.

7

But that’s rather the trick. Coming up with a solution contrary to (or even merely different from) that being advocated by the person preaching “unity” is often labeled as “being divisive”. The person doing the preaching has a win-win situation: either people support him, or they get cut down by public opinion for not being properly patriotic.

I’ve always found it someone revolting that, during times like this, daring to voice a dissenting opinion, even a mild one, makes one “unAmerican”. Democracy -is- one of the supposed values of this country and decisions should be made as such…yet as soon as anything of import happens, people immediately begin to clamor for everyone to shut up and follow the leader no matter what, as if the person in question were a king.

I’ll ‘band together’ when I agree with what you’re doing. Until then, expect either lack of support or outright opposition. In the meantime, I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t use political doublespeak to try to strongarm your way around the fact that your ideas are not universally beloved.

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Airman, I’m terribly sorry, but if I thought you were right, I would agree with you.

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Dave, my friend, this is as about as united as you will ever see this country - or this MB.

Appreciate the moment. Don’t bitch that it should be more than it is.

I’ve lived 47 years, and expect to live another 47. I’ve never seen anything like it, and doubt I will again. You might; you’re considerably younger than me. But - other than when America was united in its grief over the death of JFK - this is as united as I’ve seen America.

And this is different - to be united in an emotion is one thing; to be united in a purpose is another. I wish it could have happened without a terrible cost having been exacted first, but that seems to be the way of it. Appreciate the moment - you won’t see its kind often, if ever - but don’t ask it to be more than it can be.

10

I agree with the OP in that petty devisiveness will get us nowhere. By its very definition, “petty” means things of small importance. The issue may be that what is of small importance to one group may be quite important to another. I think that it is important to condemn Falwell & Robertson for their despicable comments. I agree with the OP in that speculation about “what ifs” can descend into bitter recriminations, and this doesn’t seem a particularly good time for that. Also, I think that there is a difference between criticizing and making fun of. Making fun of the President at this moment seems distasteful to me.

11

Hold the weddin’, y’all. I’m reading the OP to mean “let’s set aside our differences long enough to get through this.”

As a liberal Democrat, I did not vote for Bush, nor do I agree with all of his policies. He is still the commander-in-chief, however, and he’s the one who makes the decisions. There’s still an awful lot that isn’t known to the average citizen, and we all have to remember that.

Ten years from now, when the war is over, and the dust clears, and Bush et al. have written and published their memoirs, we can play all the “what if” games we want. That’s part of history. For now, however, we must stand behind our country and its allies. Our survival depends on it.

Robin

12

I can’t speak for the Nationals of other countries or for any other Brits but I will say I fully intend to critique, or “criticize” as you term it, every aspect of what Bush says, does and doesn’t say / do in this new ‘war’ of his. Why ?

For a whole bunch of reasons. Lets start with:

One - Mr Bush is new and inexperienced. His ability to cope with pressure, with military options and with diplomacy either unknown or uninformed. His agenda is driven by what his domestic audience wants. Our experience of him is a ‘reactor’, not as a leaded with a clear vision of policy goals. Example:

Anyone who can characterise this ‘war’ (off-autocue) as a “Crusade” is not, not, not demonstrating the kind of leadership ability this campaign demands, it also speaks to the subtlety of his grasp of the issues. The world is watchful for every nuance at the moment because, IMHO, there are very few countries yet comfortable with him – and yes, he delivered an approximation of the right kind of speech but that’s all he did. It was a speech written for him and all he had to do was read the damn autocue with a degree of competency. We don’t know enough.
Secondly, there are a lot of non-Americans who live in places a whole lot higher in a list of potential terrorist targets than do most US residents. I, for example, intend to watch Mr Bush like a damn hawk

Third, Mr Bush has, in the past 10 days, affected not just a 180 but a 180 at 60mph on a hand brake in his attitude to the international community. Was it just two weeks ago that the ‘America First’ agenda had driven the greatest wedge between the US and it’s erstwhile friends since…well, since forever ? How long ago was it he seemingly went out of his way to actually embarrass the leaders of countries like Germany and South Korea ? This newly engaged oilman takes a little getting used to.

Four, this new war on terrorism isn’t new at all. What is new is the desire of a US Administration to actually do something about it. So, while every country is pleased to see the US on board (notwithstanding the appalling circumstances), many countries are a little wary that Bush now wants to define something he would otherwise have had not the slightest interest in pursuing (with the other countries all ready fighting terrorism).

Fifth, the people of the US are grieving and mourning for a lot more than the dead right now. The society has changed forever and Bush personifies that mood of deeper change. However, it isn’t the mood of all countries. Many changed their attitudes, became more ‘worldly’ if you will, decades ago. IMHO, the average housewife of Backendsville, Euroland, every citizen of the UK, of France, of Gemany, Ireland, Spain even Italy knows and understands more about the implications of terrorism than does your leader.

Thus, It is a little grating at times to be informed of what we should be doing.

I could go on and on and on but…lets just get on with the damn job. Not blindly but with our eyes, ears and, most importantly, minds open.

13

Hear, hear! You may find it sad, Dave, but Rufus is right. This country was settled, in part, by people who disagreed with the majority back home to such a great extent that the pulled up stakes and moved to a vast wilderness so they could get away from them. The whole principle behind Democracy is to work through everybody’s disagreements until slightly more than half agree enough to say yes, or to at least quit fighting it. We are a loud, somewhat dysfunctional, family and this is as good as it gets. Might as well bask in it.

14

Damn L_C I wish I could put my thoughts down like that.

Great post.

15

I wonder how long this new era of Bush-led international co-operation will last once bin Laden’s in custody (or in little tiny pieces) and the other countries of the world want action on other international issues?

The president will quickly learn that the patience of the rest of the international community has worn thin if he thinks he can cherry-pick the issues on which his government can expect co-operation from allies and other nations of the world.

16

**
Well, the country anyway.

But whenever the moral relativism and peace-no-matter-what-they-do sentiments here get to nauseating me too much, I poke my head out into the real world and feel better. You know, among the stupid people.