You are quite correct, sir. I did, in fact, entirely misread your statement in the midst of my white hot rage, and I apologize for that.
If I might take the liberty to amend my query to a statement: You are quite right she is menace to herself. What with her boy-like short hair, button-up shirt wearing, shameless pant donning ways. She should really expect to be treated like crap and humiliated for purposefully and maliciously confusing someone as to what her gender might be, and then offering to absolve them of their mistake. What the hell was I thinking? :smack:
You seem to be intentionally percieving a situation in which that regulation applies (if that regulation actually applies to a privately owned restaurant).
I am guessing there was also a Male Toilet available for “percieved” men to permittedly use.
If Ms Farmer had used the Male Toilet and returned to her table the bouncer and management may have been none the wiser eitherway.
It was when she used the toilet and a customer complained a “man” was in the toilet that the bouncer took action. Subsequently kicking the “man” out of the toilet.
Bouncers kick men out of womens toilets … it is actually in the job description I hear.
They then went the whole hog and kicked “him” and her party out of the restaurant.
Outrageous! but perfectly legal as they own and run the establishment.
What? Are you simple? Of course I would have. The point was that just because you own a place and you are open to the public it doesn’t matter how many signs you have saying “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone” the fact is you cannot refuse service based on certain protected classes. I further said that I was not equating this to that in the hopes that you would understand that I was just pointing out that world is not as simple as you think it is. I fully recognize that people with “gender identity” issues are not members of a recognized protected class and I also realize that race is not the issue in this case. Do you?
This post of yours may be one of the most fuckwitted things I’ve seen on these boards, and I was here when handy was still a member.
Absent some emergency situation, why would a woman use the men’s room? Why would you suggest that a woman should use the men’s room? She’s not a man. She’s a woman.
He did not kick a man out of the women’s room, idiot. He kicked a woman who when challenged as to her sex/gender was prepared to present state-issued ID to prove it.
He didn’t kick a man out of the women’s room. He kicked a woman out of the women’s room, because she failed to conform to his expectation of appearance and refused to check her state-issued ID that confirmed her gender as female.
It is not legal in New York City to refuse service to a person on the basis of gender.
Let me repeat that for the particularly fuckwitted amongst us:
It is not legal in New York City to refuse service to a person on the basis of gender.
Owning and running a restaurant does not exempt the owners from civil rights legislation. Being an employee of a restaurant does not exempt the bouncer from civil rights laws. Being a halfwit does not exempt you from grasping that concept.
A female used the women’s restroom. Another female complained. A bouncer challenged the first woman because he perceived her to be male. All fine and dandy. The first female then identified herself as female and offered to show legal proof. The bouncer refused and denied her and her party service on the basis of his perception of her gender. The bouncer did not have the right to refuse service on that basis, the bouncer broke the law and he and his employer should be held accountable for it.
Get a basic grasp of how civil rights law works before you post again.
You must have to go really bad to have all this shit backup and make its way onto your keyboard. First, “in the face of very good reason”? Are you fucking kidding me? All of society should just erase thier minds just so a few people WHO CHOOSE dress counter to them might not some day find themselves offended? Or maybe I missed these “very good reasons”. :rolleyes:
And this I love, you want the public opinion research? Why? Only because you know it hasn’t been done. And why hasn’t it been done yet? Because it’s scheduled right behind the study to determine if people think it’s fair that the color “blue” has four letters and the “red” only has three and whether people want to change the law and have Stop signs be triangular and Yield signs be octagonal. Now, you’re not even interrested in what the research should show, because after it shows that there’s less interest in your “movement” than the movement to mandate eight hot dogs per pack to match the rolls, you’ll move on to "what makes the majority right? So stop wasting people’s time with your self-centered nonsense.
And when you decide to commission your interesting research, find out how many people would be in favor of coed bathrooms. Ask how many would prefer that their husbands or wives or girlfriends or boyfriends share a bathroom with members of the opposite sex. Don’t forget to get back to usw with that.
After having jobs where I was doing restroom maintenance, I must disagree.
You think a men’s room is bad? Peek in a ladies room sometime. Yeah, we might miss, but at least it is in a concentrated area. And what the hell is with the little bits of paper that (having been carefully torn) are always littering the floors?? I never want to see unisex bathrooms.
I’ll also mention the tampax dispenser. Trust me- it’s a minefield in there guy.
When I was working in the restaurant, some days it looked like someone had been murdered with a rusty knife in the stalls.
I think that everyone agrees that the bouncer fucked up by not lookiing at her ID and letting that be the determinant of her sex. But let me ask you a question, if an actual man, dressed as a man, was in the women’s room and refused to leave, wouldn’t the establishment be justified in throwing him out? And if so, couldn’t you argue that it, too, would fall under your claim?
Ms Farmer does not have Gender Identity issues, she is a lesbian woman who’s personal stylings lead her to be percieved as a man.
In this instance a man went into a ladies toilet and got kicked out of it.
Oh and no, I do not believe you would have made the same comment if Ms Farmer was black.
As really mannish white chick getting thrown out of toilet shocker! does not equal refusing service to negroes in the deep south when first read.
Likewise fratboys who drink to much and decide it’s a great idea to through bottles of Bud Lite at each other get the shown the door … just like when frat boys think its cool to poll into the ladies toilet “for a jape” get shown the door.
Or is the bouncer supposed to be sitting there pondering the likes of yesteryear whilst the bar is being torn to shreds?
You brought it up.
The greatly—though sometimes overly so—esteemed Dr. West has, as we say, a tendency or predeliciton, or in the very least, a hypersignificant bent to when engaged in oratory, per se, with the purpose of educating, edifying and otherwise engaging another in dialogue, to gravitate toward those words and phrases—idiomatic and not—from our linguistic garden that one could classify—if one is so inclined, not that I would necessarily fall within that subset of what you might categorize in that Venn universe as a vocabularphobic—as grander, richer, more multidimensional, more fitting as one of the myriad tiles and the mosiac one is trying to create, without necessarily beign justifiable accused of being lugubrious, you see, or failing that, bigger and more multisyllabic than another dialogician attempting to support the same position through, viz a viz, the same dialectic approach, albeit one easier on the tongue and systems both respiratorial and aural.
No, you tell me where a bouncer kicking a “man” out of a female toilet is a bad thing.
Next tell me, why a bouncer would be so convivial to dein to look at the ID card of a “man” he just through out of a womans toilet. When his sole intention was to get a “man” out of the womens toilets.
When she engages society in her quest to challenge their midline, if you will, and is treated poorly for it, she becomes her own “menace” when the poor treatment she will surely get eventually comes. I’m not advocating it and have rebuked the douchebag bouncer for his insensitivity, however, as someone who stands up and challenges what the majority of society considers normal, I should expect that it is not going to BE an easy road. Perhaps menace wasn’t the proper term, but it was used in the context of the thread.
Not everyone who experiences such misunderstandings is “standing up and challenging” in such a manner, and trying to define what exactly it means to be willfully challenging gender norms is yet another area where such definitions are not possible, imho.
You have seen the examples that myself and others have shared (in this thread and the original), yes? Working on a ranch, etc…
[QUOTE=Spit]
::Gives buttonjockey308 a standing ovation::
Thanks! That’s two in 36 years, not bad at all.
I copy on the womens washrooms though, I wandered into one (due to poor signage) that smelled like a shithouse door on a tuna boat. I know the depths of teh funk, believe me.
