I had a couple of questions about the Godfather films (mostly part-II)
(1) In part-II, why does Hyman Roth want Michael killed? The only guess I have is based on his openly expressed anger at Mo Green’s murder. Could the reason be economic? Wasn’t Roth doing pretty good?
(2) Fredo “betrays” Michael. What we learn is that Johnny Ola (sp?) and Hyman Roth got to Fredo promised him something and deceived him. Just what did Fredo exactly do ? How could that contribute to the assassination attempt?
(3) After the assassination attempt, the men are found with their throats slit or at least murdered. Who did that? Suicide?
In general, the whole premise of “making an offer he can’t refuse” is threatening murder. Why were the police a non-factor? Is it that the mafia could always kill anyone anywhere with impunity? But, we do see the Congress go after them. Why then didn’t all the people who were once blackmailed step forward? If it all boils down to being afraid of death and giving in to threats, how come law enforcement actually works?
Roth didn’t want to share in the expected profits of the “investment” in Cuba.
Fredo opened the drapes in Mike & Kay’s bedroom so the assassins would either know at which bedroom to shoot, or have a better chance of success.
Two theories:
a) Fredo killed them. The dead assassins were coincidentally found right outside Fredo’s window. However, in the novel and elsewhere in the movies, Freddie never kills anyone.
b) The leader of the hit squad kills the accomplices, to cover tracks and make an escape easier.
The local and state police, prosecutors and judges were paid off or otherwise compromised. Also, a lot of people threatened are doing illegal activities, and thus unable to go to the police.
These and other questions about The Godfather are discussed atThe Godfather Trilogy.
One question that has never been answered: Why to the Feds continue to keep Frankie “Five Angels” Pentangeli in Witness Protection after he refuses to testify against Michael?
The police were a non-factor because the Corleone family “owned them,” in the sense that the police took bribes from the Corleone’s, so the family could blackmail them.
Yes, Congress did go after them, but if you remember, Congress didn’t get anything on Michael, thanks to the "code of silence.:
Thanks 5 time champ for the link but it is rather a tad bit hard to wade through the gazillion posts by those Godfather maniacs! (jes kidding). Let me follow up on your answers:
(1) What does Roth gain by eliminating Michael? There were so many partners investing anyway.
(2) But, Fredo is portrayed as being deceived. That is, he is not aware that they planned to kill Michael. Why would he open the drapes then?
(3) I do doubt if Fredo actually killed them… not his MO! We also know that no one escaped the compound. So, if the Chief of the attack killed them, he must have taken his own life too?
I would assume that Pentangeli gave them the goods on a lot of other, minor, mafiosi. Of course, this isn’t supported by the movies, but it is a reasonable assumption.
Fredo is so dumb that he doesn’t know why he is asked to open the drapes.
Who killed the machine gunners? Not likely suicide. There were no gunshots, except maybe silencers. We don’t know that Fredo never killed anyone. It seems unlikely to me that Fredo could have silently and quickly killed two hit men with adrenline pumping, and who would have had orders to kill Fredo too. It was someone else, probably a third hit man that they trusted.
Hyman Roth and Moe Green were loosely disguised as Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegal, who were real life mobsters and close as brothers. Bugsy ripped off Meyer, Lucky Lucianno and Mob Inc. in building the Flamingo. They bumped him off. I suspect that the motivation was Roth getting revenge and trying to steal the Corleone investment that was never made.
Yes, litost they are a bunch of maniacs. I visit from time-to-time, but one can only take so many “Is it true that when oranges are shown, it means that someone is about to die?”
I don’t think the legitimate businessmen were a part of the bribery, er bribery for the casino. Michael and Roth probably had to do a lot of background work with Bastista, but once that was done the money was the easy part.
It probably didn’t even occur to Fredo that it could even be a hit. The Tahoe estate was fairly impregnable. Maybe Johnny Ola [actor Dominic Chianese, who plays Uncle Junior on The Sopranos] made a bet with Fredo that Kay wasn’t a true blonde Or maybe Freddie took Johnny on a tour of the house, and Johnny opened the drapes while Freddie wasn’t looking,
I think we can safely assume the assassins weren’t killed by Corleone security forces.
Almost no one [myself included] believes that Freddie killed the assassins.
Therefore it would seem most likely that the leader of the assassins, killed the other two and escaped. Or the leader didn’t have to “escape” because he was a Roth plant in Freddie’s “men.”
I don’t Francis Ford Coppola foresaw VHS tapes and DVDs way back in 1974. He couldn’t have known that Godfather geeks would have the opportunity to question his masterpiece.
My questions regarding GODFATHER II:
-if Michael is so smart and ruthless, how come he doesn’t know that dumb brother Fredo is travelling to havana and hanging out with Hyman Roth?
-after Moe Green humiliates Fredo in front of Michael, Michael tellls Fredo “…don’t ever take sides against the family”-one would think that poor Fredo was being marked for death even then
-Micchael has dopey Fredo fly down to cuba with $1 million (or is it $5 million) in a briefcase-what happened to the money when Castro’s men burst into Havana?
-Fredo is scared shitless when his mother finally croaks(I would have hightailed it out of Nevada!); instead he hangs around the house while the wake is going on, and embraces Michael. I take he thought that this meant he was “off the hook”. Instead, he gets a bullet in the head and a watery grave in Lake Tahoe-would Michael risk Frdo’s bloated body floating up at his next lakeside party? Where was the undertaker (Amerigo Bonasera) when you needed him?
I have a feeling FFC (from that darn website :)) consciously edited and presented to us the final version. I highly doubt if he intended to clarify how Fredo betrayed Mike or how those men ended up dead. In fact now that I can recall, how did Sal betray Mike in the original film? I assumed he just enlisted with Barzini after the Don’s death. There are many such “nuanced” holes in the film. Though your question as to why Pentangeli was still with the FBI sounds like more like an error (there are always plausible explanations)
Ah, Fredo, dumb as a duck :D. I can imagine him blushing about the “kassino bessness”. What a performance!
My questions are, did Hyman Roth have his men intentionally botch the hit on Frank Pentangeli so as to turn him against Michael or did it just work out for him that way (I know the cop came into the bar and interrupted the hit, but that could’ve been staged)?
And at the end of Part 1, Michael wiped out the heads of all the other families (I thought), but in Part 2 he was back dealing with Barzini, et al. What happened there? Did the families just reconstitute themselves offscreen?
Oh, and as long as I’m asking questions: Why was Tom Hagen cut out of most of Michael’s dealings? Was it really as Michael said, to protect Tom? Because I got the feeling that Michael was just saying that so that Tom could save face, that he really didn’t trust Tom.
Forgive me if I get the nuances wrong but by keeping Tom out of the loop, Tom didn’t know the details of Mike’s business and therefore Tom couldn’t betray him. Remember the “This is why right now you are the only person I can trust” speech Mike gives Tom?
Perhaps that’s it. He didn’t really trust anybody, but he trusted Tom more than most because Tom didn’t know enough to actually hurt him. Although Tom was the most trustworthy person in the film(s), IMO. Says a lot about Michael.
Huh. Adds a little something to the movies for me. Thanks.
Trying to remember the order of all the things that happened but what about the scene where MC asks TH about the job offer in Vegas? MC knew TH turned it down but he brought it up anyway.
If he truely trusted TH would have asked him that question in front of others? I think MC was paronoid of everyone including TH. IMO, MC did that to show TH that he (MC) still has control over the family and TH shouldn’t embarass him by even listening to offers from others. Entertaining offers could look like TH wants out, if the price is right, because the Corleone family is not going to last.
MC showed him that no one including TH is outside the possibility of betraying the family. Except MC of course.
let’s be real. the whole tom/michael scenario in G2 was a pretty sloppy piece of writing by the screenwriter. that whole crock “i always wanted to be thot of as a brother by you, mike”…where the h did that come from? all thru G1 there was nothing to detract from mike’s statement to kay at the wedding that “this is my brother, tom hagin”. keeping that in mind, you can see the shoddy construction. as good as G2 was, it had more holes in it than hyman roth!
…but Mike changing his perception and starting to mistrust even Tom shows how far he had gone. If you count in Fredo’s and Carlo’s betrayal, it is not too surprising, but still, he became cheerless, cynical and ruthless in contrast to his father who still exuded a love for people and things while knowing when to be careful. I think it also shows how the world was changing, evidenced by Kay refusing to live with Mike, something Don’s wife would never have thought of.
I’ve just seen Godfather I and II the last two nights but I was plagued both nights by friends talking throughout the entire films (especially the first one.) I have several questions but I just want to ask this one at the moment while it’s fresh on my mind:
When Robert Duvall went to the military compound where [Frank?] was staying, what was that speach all about? All I heard was something about Romans and suicide and I think [Frank?] liked to study Roman history. Was Duvall offhandedly talking him into commiting suicide? Was that his sole purpose of going there?
Also, I liked parts I and II. I definately didn’t see them as top 5 movies of all time but I did enjoy them. Is part III even worth watching? I’ve heard it’s terrible but is it terrible in and of itself or did it just not live up to expectations?
