Let's Analyze the Hell out of The Godfather Saga (here be spoilers)

Cafe Society
1

This is meant to cover the whole she-bada-bang. Mafia codewords, Sicilian slang, genealogies, life imitating art, art imitating life, the motivations of the characters, the motivations of the writers, actor anecdotes, favorite lines, best moments, worst moments, “WTF happened with part III?”, etc.

The Godfather series is, IMO, and infinite realm of fascination. I could watch Parts I&II once a week and never get tired; nor do I ever fail to notice something new, or have something I always noticed strike me in a new way (only Stanly Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssy can rival this staying power, for me).

I think of Brando’s brilliance, even in the tiniest gestures he made. One scene that always made me marvel both and Brando and Pacino together was the garden scene, where Vito is advising Michael of Barzini’s likely move to assassinate him. It opens with…

Vito: I like to drink wine more than I used to…anyway, I’m drinkin’ more.
Michael: It’s good for you, pop.

The intimacy of just this intro to the conversation, the combined tension of despondance, love, dread, and resignation are so powerful, yet so subtle…it’s sheer movie brilliance, what can I say. It’s painful, it’s so good.

With the passing of Brando, Francis Coppola’s apparent capitulation to Hollywood mediocrity, Pacino’s evolution into a kind of bellowing parody of himself…well I fear at times we may never see such magic on the screen again. (possible exception: Sophia Coppola’s magnificent “Lost in Translation”, and Bill Murray and Scarlet Johanson’s wonderfully nuanced performances).

But luckily, we’ve got the Godfather to watch over and over, and talk about until we’re blue (which I never tire of). Care to join me in a conversation?

2

I think an under-appreciated aspect of the original Godfather picture is as Michael is about to murder the Turk and the Police Captain, two times does Coppola use the overwhelmingly loud roar of a Subway train.

Once, as Michael pulls the gun from behind the toilet, he looks at it and realizes, that he is about to actually do this. At this point, the audio is a loud elevated Subway train rolling thru. Then, as he approaches the table where the two are dining, Coppola again fills the audio track with the roar of the train.

It is an extraordinary use of sound in film.

3

The baby being baptized at the end of Godfather I is Sofia Coppola.

Just watched it last night–what a great film with such an amazing cast. Francis Ford Coppola’s commentary was an eye-opener–it’s shocking how little faith the studio had in this film and its director.

4

OK, here’s a question:

When Sonny finds out Paulie set up his father for the hit, he tells Clemenza to bump off Paulie. During this conversation, Sonny calls Paulie something…it sounds to me like “that stronze” or something like that. It’s not an especially Sicilian or Italian-sounding word to my ears, and I have no idea what it means. Anybody know?

5

Loopydude wrote

Do we have to include that stupid third installment? Hard to believe the best sequel ever could be followed by that steaming turd.

The first two are truly great films.

6

°¡??opydude]OK, here’s a question:

When Sonny finds out Paulie set up his father for the hit, he tells Clemenza to bump off Paulie. During this conversation, Sonny calls Paulie something…it sounds to me like “that stronze” or something like that. It’s not an especially Sicilian or Italian-sounding word to my ears, and I have no idea what it means. Anybody know?
[/QUOTE]

This, from an Italian slang dictionary

stronzo m. (vulgar) turd; (figuratively) shit, turd.

7

Vito’s death in the garden is a great scene. Here’s a guy, a murderer, tough as nails, whose also a loving grandfather, bzzzing around the garden with his grandson and the Flit.

8

“who’se”, not “whose”

9

It’s a variation of the Italian word “stronzo” which is slang for “turd” or (when referring to a person) “asshole.”

10

To ltfire and Skopo:

Badabing! That’s awesome! Thanks, I’ve been wondering about stronze or whatever it is for years.

Only here in the SDMB… :slight_smile:

11

The restaurant scene that thermalribbon describes is one of my favorite moments in cinematic history. I love the way the tension (echoed by the sound of the train) keeps building until Michael stands up and shoots. Every time I watch it, I get nervous during this scene, even though I’ve seen it so many times before.

Another moment I love is when Vito Corleone returns home from the hospital, after recovering from his coma. After Tom reluctantly informs Vito that Michael did the shootings, and has gone into hiding, Vito is upset–he’d always wanted Michael to be the one who didn’t go into the family business, someone who would take up a legitimate profession in politics. Now he’s learned that Michael has lost that future, he’s naturally saddened.

The way Vito expresses that anguish–the pain on his face as he silently waves Tom away–is so poignant and effective; it’s one of the many examples of what an amazing actor Brando was.

12

Ooo, there is much to talk about…

But first, I have selfish reasons… :slight_smile:

Last vocabulary question for a while, I promise: “pezzonovante” (Michael chimes in “another pezzonovante” when Vito tells him how he had big plans for him outside the business “Senator Corleone…Governor Corleone…there wasn’t enough time.”) I believe this translates roughly to “big shot”. Obviously, that’s not the literal meaning. Anybody know much about this word, its meaning, derivation, and so forth?

13

Michael Gazzo did a great job as Frankie Pentangeli. But it would have been so much better if Coppola could have gone with his original plan to have Richard Castellano return and made it Clemenza who turned against Michael. Castellano unfortunately demanded too much money (he was, surprisingly, the highest paid actor in the first movie) and script control.

14

It literally does mean “big shot.” It translates to 90 caliber.

15

I simply love the scene where Brando says: “Tattaglia’s a pimp. He never could’ve out-fought Santino. But I didn’t know until this day that it was Barzini all along.”

It seems like a simple enough scene, it exposes an element of the plot and makes the mafia wars intriguing. But, the way Brando says that accompanied by the solemn music gives me an cinematic orgasm. Perfectly executed.

The other great one-liner that is done to perfection is Robert Duvall’s “Can’t do it, Sally.”

Two other scenes that are terrific:

(i) When they learn that the Don has survived, the music and the way the plotters react… you can taste the fear.

(ii) The last scene where Clemenza kisses Michael’s hand, and this guy walks up to close the door with Diane Keaton in the frame. Chilling and very melodramatic.

16

Let me first get this off my chest: Andy Garcia’s character in III could not have been Sonny’s child by Lucy Mancini. I read the book, and that drives me bananas.

I love James Caan as Sonny - in particular, although I love the casting in general. Sonny, Clemenza and Tessio had to have been written by Puzo with those actors in mind. More than anyone, though, I think Caan captured the mannerisms of a first-generation Italian of his day.

Although my own personal favorite lines in any of the movies are Clemenza’s - “Leave the gun. Take the cannoli,” and “Your pop was real proud of you.” (I may be paraphrasing that last one, though - it’s when Clemenza is “training” Michael.

17

Did Frankie really turn against Michael. I saw it as the other way around. Michael says 'play nice with these guys" knowing that they were gonna whack him.

18

What was in the book that would have made it impossible?

19

I’ll admit it. I’ve watched Part II four or five times, but I’m still not sure exactly who did waht to who in which order. The triangle of suspicion and lies between Michael, Frankie, and Hyman Roth is so intense it’s difficult to tell who actually committed the first betrayal.

20

Well, this is a spoiler for any who haven’t read the book and wish to, so:

Lucy Mancini - Sonny’ lover and the purported mother of Vincent - moves to Vegas and strikes up a relationship with a doctor after Sonny’ death. She ends up working for the family indirectly as a stockholder in the casino. No mention in the book whatsoever about a child she had with Sonny - in fact, after Sonny dies, one of Vito’s capos asks Lucy if she is pregnant and she says no.

The first two movies were very true to the book, so you can see why this irritates the bejezus out of me.