I was thinking up this post while the movie was still on. I watched it on the opening day with 5 other people in the theatre. Since I was by myself I sat in my favourite spot - the front row - so it is more immersive.
I think the original movie was interesting and moving but not convincing in terms of its arguments for God’s existence.
The thread for the first movie:
I thought some of the arguments in this movie were quite convincing though particularly the ones by a cold case guy that was an atheist until he investigated the gospels.
His site:
His point about Jesus being blindfolded was quite convincing. (about Matthew 26:65-68 compared to other passages - it doesn’t make sense in Matthew that it didn’t mention he was blindfolded)
Also I think he said that none of the early Christians recanted their faith so they must have really believed it. Personally if I was part of a scam and I had the option of a quick death if I recanted with the alternative of torture then I would deny my faith.
Though at the moment it seems like Jesus might be historical, his supposed resurrection doesn’t make sense because I usually don’t believe in anything supernatural. I tend to believe that we are like machines though perhaps operating in parallel interacting universes. When I have believed in the supernatural since I became an atheist at about the age of 18 or 19 I have been in a psychosis or entering into one.
The court case had some big twists and turns that I found original (though I haven’t seen many court room dramas)
BTW there is a Christian movie called “Suing the Devil” set in Australia with Malcolm McDowell as the devil. I’m going to watch that again.
The ending:
She wins - though losing could still be a victory since she’d become a martyr like her heroes Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr and Jesus. Her victory makes sense though.
I will admit to not having seen the films in question, although I have a relation who is a big fan who has described them in great and painful detail to me, and I’ve read articles about them.
That said, while I’m glad you enjoyed the film(s), IMHO - and the HO of many others - these films are basically just stories aimed at feeding the delusions of those Christians living in predominantly-Christian cultures - cultures with official holidays aligned to the Christian calendar, Christian “ceremonial” prayers as the default in government meetings, Christian symbology built into public structures of all kinds, and Christian beliefs echoed in radio and television and film over and over and over again - that they are somehow persecuted martyrs. Which requires the creation of some fairly ludicrous atheist strawmen. I’m not buying it.
I would take the various “real court cases” cited at the ends of the films with a very, very large grain of salt - they may not be about what the filmmakers claim they’re about.
As a Christian, I have chosen not to view these movies, though I probably will out of interest at some point. I don’t watch any of the movies from these studios/companies because I think they are:
Badly made and written.
Pandering to the crowd(literally preaching to the choir)
Serve no purpose
Embarrass Christians in general
I am confident Christian film-makers exist, or at least could exist, who can create greater movies that they could use to introduce folks to God, etc.
Inside Out was made by Pete Docter, a Christian director. While not a Christian movie primarily, or even partially, he could certainly use this well-made movie for God if he wants. I have no idea if he does, but Christians do not have to make movies that are “exclusively Christian”.
I agree. As a Christian I am bothered by these types of movies. If more Christians would fight real injustices in the world instead of invented strawmen, the world would be a better place, and I don’t appreciate the media feeding into people’s delusions that the strawmen are real.
I’m sure you’re right. I know there are some movies made with Christian themes and subtext that don’t hit you over the head with it, though I can’t think of any off the top of my head. I definitely know that there are Christians working in Hollywood who are happy to be directors who are Christians instead of Christian directors (same with screenwriters, actors, etc.).
These “Christian movies” are almost always bad art, because they have two purposes:
Proselytize
Make money from Evangelical moviegoers.
The tend to just exist in a certain echo chamber within conservative Christianity. I’m sure they’re uplifting to their target audience, but they present a distorted version of the world in which Christians are the persecuted minority and martyrs for the faith. Ultimately I see them as pretty harmful because they reinforce narrow-mindedness and bad stereotypes about believers AND atheists. Good art should challenge you, not pat you on the back for your righteousness.
There are many good mainstream films with Christian themes and messages, whether explicit or implicit. An older one I often recommend is The Mission with Jeremy Irons and Robert DeNiro. THAT’S how you do a movie of what it means to be a Christian - one with no easy answers or unflawed heroes.
The second movie is as asinine as the first (I’ve actually watched both, for which I deserve a medal for service above and beyond the call of duty.)
As for early Christians never denying their faith to save their lives, that’s highly unlikely. We know from the evidence of Pliny the Younger that when he was trying Christians in Pontus from 111 to 113 AD many of them would claim they weren’t Christians any more and would make sacrifice to the Emperor and even curse Christ when asked to. People don’t change over the centuries, you’ll always get some who go to their death gladly (as Islamic suicide-bombers now) and others who will decide discretion is the better part of valor and equivocate, as the Jesuits called it, or in plain English lie.
Good point! Plus, once the tables were turned and the Christians started in on “payback time” against the heathens, weren’t there some pagan priests that refused to recant?
Spoilers? What spoilers? I’d expect from these movies that in the end it turns out God is not dead/is real and the Truth prevails. Make one in which everyone comes to understand and respect one another in their respective paths and then you’ll have an interesting story.
I’m not sure that’s what the OP is referring to. It’s generally pointed out that of Jesus disciples, most faced martyrdom and none recanted their belief in the resurrection (at least, according to tradition and what few accounts we have). That’s used to dispute the accusation that ‘the disciples stole the body’ or made up Jesus completely.
Though before Jesus was killed, the gospels say that Peter denied him three times… and also after Jesus was killed the disciples were very scared of persecution so they were hiding…