I wish I had a clever title to put in that subject line - but as I have the wit of a goldfish myself, it isn‘t happening.
Basically this story says that the City of Rome has banned goldfish bowls because “they are cruel” and “make the fish go blind”.
Am not familiar enough with this subject to be able to process this information. So:
**Are goldfish bowls cruel to goldfish? Why?
Do they make goldfish go blind? Why?**
I have heard the bowls are bad for Goldfish because goldfish are dirty - very large waste-producers - fish and with no filter they are essentially swimming in their own waste.
But that is only what I heard and what I was trained while working at a pet store, they may have just been trying to sell more aquariums though.
I’ve heard that they are less than optimal because a goldfish bowl has a smaller air surface than a tank of equivalent volume, so the fish get less dissolved oxygen in the water.
The only problem I see would be the ammonia build-up in the bowl which is caused by the decomposition of fish waste. You can, however, purchase a chemical to counteract the accumulation.
As for the article itself, I think of it as utter nonsense. Cruel? Goldfish have a memory of 2 seconds. Besides, THEY’RE GOLDFISH. Walking down the fish aisles in any pet store you’ll see dead goldfish that were sucked into the filters of those 10-gallon, “high class” fish tanks. Perhaps placing them in those tanks are cruel, too. Either way, the City of Rome needs to get a hobby.
Both good answers (above), but there’s more.
All life started in the water. The cellular organism, being a single cell, was always in direct contact with the surrounding water, and drew the raw materials it need directly from that life giving fluid. As multicellular organisms evolved, they had to develop ways to get those nutrients to “interior” cells–cells that were no longer in direct contact with seawater. Thus the circulatory system, which circulates blood–essentially, seawater synthesized by the organism. “We” left the water millions of years ago, so our bodies had to develop closed systems, cut off from the seawater. We carry our closed system of seawater around with us.
Fish never left the water, so they never needed to evolve such a physically isolated circulatory system. Mostly through their gill membranes, fish still maintain a very close osmotic relationship with the water they live in. If the water chemistry changes, a fish’s blood chemistry will change too, in order to maintain an osmotic balance with the water it lives in.
This means, of course, that fish are even more sensitive to the chemicals that surround them than we are. Along comes evolution and finds a way to take advantage of this to manage fish population density.
As a fish population grows, naturally the concentration of the fishes’ metabolic byproducts–i.e., bodily waste–increases in the surrounding water. As these chemicals (Ammonia => nitrates => nitrites) become more concentrated in the water–and therefore, remembering the osmotic gill membranes–in a fish’s blood–the fish’s metabolism is affected. In response to these signals of overpopulation, a fish’s growth may slow, or stop entirely. And to vastly oversimplify, the fish begins to die. A change in water chemistry can return things to normal, but for all intents and purposes the fish is now on the downslope of its life cycle as opposed to the upside.
In a bowl, without adequate water changes to diliute the waste chemicals, a fish’s growth will be stunted, and it won’t live a normal life span. People may triumphantly claim that their goldfish lived 5 or 6 years in a bowl, but a goldfish in its native environment–cold, clean freshwater–it may live as long as 40 years. So 5 or 6 years is more like infanticide than success.
So it’s not so much the physical limitations of the bowl. It’s the chemical issues. I’ve had goldfish live well in bowls if I feed them no more than frequently than every second or third day, and change the water frequently. (I’ve never had a goldfish for 40 years, but I’ve given a few away after keeping them healthy for 4 or 5.)
And the article says “round bowls caused fish to go blind.” This makes some kind of sense if you realize that fish eyes protrude somewhat from their head, and a goldfish may spend a lot of time sliding along the inner surface of the bowl. This is less likely to happen in a container that isn’t globular, for obvious geometrical reasons.
I’ve always tried to talk people out of putting goldfish in bowls, but I’m not sure I’d go so far as to criminalize it.
Actually, ammonia is a byproduct of a fish’s respiratory function; ammonia is given off by the gills. And the chemical solution should be looked at as temporary; frequent dilution with fresh water is the only long term remedy.
Ya know, that’s what I thought originally. I had once used a bowl and inquired about the cloudiness of the water after a few days. I seemed to remember hearing that the ammonia is secreted through the gills, but a quick search on Google led me in the wrong direction. I was looking here:
I read as far as “fish waste,” and that led to my undoing.
Anyways, after a few more days with the cloudy fish bowl, I decided to just buy a larger tank with a filter. I also bought one of those algae-eating sucker fish to help with the cleanliness.
Do fish really have that limited of a memory?
They produce waste too.
I was slightly exaggerating, but here are some details from a study at Plymouth University:
And from "answerbag ":
Fish are capable of being conditioned, and reacting involuntarily to learned stimuli, but I don’t think that’s exactly the same thing as memory. I don’t think fish have what you’d consider “memory” at all.
I had a goldfish for a while. It thrived in a 5 gallon tank. So much so that I had to find a home for it after grew as big a small trout. Since I was the only one to feed it, Goldie would respond to my presence in the room by looking at me and waving her tail wildly. In fact, she could pick me out of a room full of people, ignoring everyone else, and reacting only to me. She remembered something.
lissener’s post is very good. (Welcome back, lissener!) One of the primary dangers with keeping goldfish in bowls is not only the poisonous buildup of nitrates/nitrates/ammonia, but the gradual stunting of growth, which almost certainly lessens the quantity of life and is thought to be detrimental to the fish’s quality of life as well. Goldfish have been known to get over a foot long (Google Bruce the Giant Oranda sometime for your fishy pleasure); most people in fishkeeping circles will recommend ten to twenty gallons per goldfish, more if you can manage it, and ideally, a pond life for the fish.
Hi, Neighbor!, by “algae-eating sucker fish”, do you mean a plecostomus? Plecos are not a good fish for many home aquariums: they get extremely large (a foot or more!). Fishkeeping people will generally recommend fifty gallons or more per pleco. Also keep in mind that if you want to sell the fish or trade it in when it gets huge, most pet shops don’t like to take freakin’ enormous plecos (or enormous fish of any kind–try selling your oscars when they get too big for that 50-gal). Plus, plecos have been known to be tempted by the tasty, tasty slime coat of fish, goldfish in particular; they are not generally recommended to be kept with goldfish for this reason. You might want to consider trading it to a pet shop while it’s still relatively small.
Oh, and you should certainly use a chemical that states it removes chlorines, chloramines, and ammonia before you put the fish in the water; however, keep in mind that these chemicals are intended to make tap water safe for the fish to swim in and are no substitute for regular water changes.
Goldfish are dirty fish. They don’t have stomachs. The food passes right through them and they absorb what nutrients they can on the way, the rest passes right out.
Also, pleco’s aren’t the only type of algae eating fish. There are three basic types sold in stores.
Plecos, which have the problem that was noted, they get huge.
Chinese algae eaters which tend to stop eating algae as they get older and can be agressive (this is probably what you would get if you buy an “algae eater”)
Ottocinclus. These are the best bet for small tanks. You might need a couple if your tank is 20 or 30 gallons.
Also, snails are good for eating algae, but you gotta make sure they can’t climb out of the tank.
Anyway, I’m a avid aquarist, but I don’t like goldfish, so I’ve never kept one in a bowl or a tank.
The best fish for a small bowl is probably a betta or siamese fighting fish. They come to the surface to breath so the oxygen isn’t a problem. You still need to change the water often.
They are cruel in that goldfish produce more waste than tropicals and will most likely die in those circustances. I tried keeping some fry from a rain barrel alive in a ten gallon over the Winter. They required daily water changes.
They are not cruel in that fish are the only animal that the Rabbis say don’t require ritual slaughter because they do not feel pain.
Anyway, if you want the goldfish to live, get them a large aquarium. They can grow to be forty years old. Most don’t.
My latest problem is a hawk taking them from the pool. Everybody’s trying to make a living.
Of course they have stomachs. Their digestive system is not significantly different from your average fish. People just tend to feed them way too much.
Except the small species.
Perfectly correct. I shun Chinese Algae Eaters.
They’re also schooling fish. I but them by the half dozen.
Some snails will devastate live plants; so willl most plecos. Ottos, not quite so much. Flying Foxes are algae grazers, as are mollies. But mollies like salt in the water. MOst fish like some fish in the water, but some don’t. And mollies only thrive with a LOT of salt; they’ll live and breed in full marine.
Betta splendens (pet peeve: it’s pronounced “betta,” not “beta”), or Siamese fighing fish, don’t require filtration or oxygenation, but they do require warmth.
Oh and–
–thanks, LL.
Did you mean “Most fish like some salt in the water?” I didn’t know that. How much is some?