Perhaps you could give me an example of us liberals making this argument, since I’ve never heard it.
I’m not even sure what point you’re making here, but I thought this list of teen pregnancy rates by states might be somewhat relevant. Hint: the bright red states don’t do so hot.
This site also has some interesting factoids – like what happens when you don’t allow sex ed and make abortion difficult:
"• In 2006, 14,200 or 59% of births that resulted from unintended pregnancy in Massachusetts were publicly funded. Nationally, 64% of births that resulted from unintended pregnancy were publicly funded, ranging from a low of 42% in Hawaii to a high of 81% in both Louisiana and Mississippi.(7) "
So what? I did say “tend to”, which does have meaning, you know.
Anyway, since it’s obviously too hard to click on a link, here are the abortion rates by state listed from highest to lowest.
Feel free to note the geographic, and thusly political, differences between the states at the top, the middle and the bottom.
Why? So you can be told something blatantly obvious? Meh, whatever.
Do you not click on links? The out of state abortion rate for South Dakota is actually higher than Minnesotta, meaning it’s more “common” for a woman to travel to South Dakota for an abortion than it is for a woman to travel to Minnesota for one.
If by “interesting” you mean “to point out the painfully obvious”, then sure. It’d be “interesting”.
lol, really?
I guess I must have dreamt up all those people stating how “the U.S. has a high abortion rate because of conservative policies like abstinence only education or being opposed to (free) birth control” or all those people somehow arguing that conservatives cause there to be more abortions by wanting to make it illegal or other such nonsense. Obviously. Because they most certainly don’t exist. Most certainly not.
…
Yeah… Seriously now? No I’m not about to go source that, when you damn well know such arguments get bandied around willy nilly, in virtually every single abortion related thread that pops up. One of liberals’ favorite phrase generally begins with “If you cared about the abortion rate, you’d <adopt some liberal policy>”, whether that be comprehensive sex ed, giving out free contraceptives or whatever else it is you guys and gals get a tingly feeling over.
For a moment there, I thought this thread was about abortion.
Considering what most conservative politicians say about global warming, evolution, and even abortion itself, I didn’t know they were concerned about “scientific literacy.”
Well, it would be pretty naive to think that there’s no relationship between unintended pregnancy and abortion. So if some person was to brag about lower rates of abortion in red states, it would be idiotic not to consider the consequences as well.
If you want to look at the screamingly hilarious aspect of abortion, all you have to do is look at the conservative attitude towards sex and pregnancy.
Sex ed: Nope. Just don’t none of you horny bored teenagers have sex.
Birth Control: Nope. Not in God’s plan.
Prenatal Care: Forget it – Because the provider might potentially also provide or consult on abortion services.
Morning after pills: Nope, nope, nope. Against my beliefs.
Abortion: Heavens no. Won’t someone think of the children?
Financial and medical support for single parents: Why should we think of the children?
So conservatives won’t help women avoid getting pregnant, won’t allow them to terminate those unwanted pregnancies, AND get bent out of shape when asked to help support those unwanted children and financially unprepared parents. What could be funnier than that?
They’re concerned their constituents will be exposed to it.
I have literally never heard anyone point this out in an argument about abortion. Regardless it’s not very funny. Maybe if you said it in a squeaky voice?
I have to ask: so what? If one believes that abortion is not murder, is a medical procedure like any other, then so fucking what if people take advantage of that legal right? So there are higher abortion rates, big deal! That’s like complaining about higher ice cream sales!
You see, some of us don’t have the automatic disgust response to abortion like you think we ought to. I hear a state has more abortions, and I say “so?” If someone I know gets an abortion, I say “so?” If I had a daughter and she wanted an abortion, I would react the same way as if she asked for a nose job. I don’t look at a woman differently who never had an abortion vs. one who’s had several. You know what I would say if I found out my mother had one? “Oh, that’s cool, guess you had your reasons.” I wouldn’t dwell on the sibling I never had or be afraid of how close I was to get aborted, it would raise a big fat zero in my panic meter.
Like it or not, believe it or not, there are people out there who don’t believe the same thing you do and don’t consider fetuses to be a separate entity deserving of rights over that of the mother. And if those fetuses should be annihilated, some of us would say “so?”
So Democratic states have higher rates of abortion? That’s wonderful! It seems like women in blue states are taking advantage of their safe and legal medical procedure! Good job having an abortion and not bringing in a sick baby or an unwanted baby into the world! I’m happy for them!
Same here. OMG who have you been talking to or reading?
No-it’s about the Republicans thinking that they need to make jokes about abortion to win votes.
Talking about which states have more abortions is like talking about which states have more gallbladder removals. Who gives a shit?
Dear Miss Elizabeth:
We here at the American Committee for Gall Bladder Awareness have noticed your message on the much esteemed SDMB. While we do not doubt your intentions are sincere and well-meant, we must take some exception to your cavalier and off-handed reference to matters of gall bladder health and awareness, and ask that you take a moment to reconsider your attitude.
Thanking you in advance, I remain, very truly yours
Billy Rubin, M.D.
Chairman, American Committee for Gall Bladder Awareness
When the differences are so much more dramatic by age group - 44% of those ages 18-29 answering correctly vs. 64% ages 30-49 - party differences would have to be controlled for that factor before they’d be very meaningful. Surely when you used the word “counterpart” you were thinking of two people from a similar demographic of different political orientations.
I think about 23% of pregnancies end in abortion.
Abortion is just a form of birth control. I don’t feel bad for all the kids that weren’t born because my parents used contraception.
Unless you’re going to labor under the assumption that “unintended” means “unwanted”, then no, it’s not all that naïve. It doesn’t matter what percentage of pregnancies are unintended if they’re, as you guys and gals love to say, “wanted”. Check out Table 1, which highlights this point. Even though “red” states tend to have a higher percentage of unintended pregnancies as a total of all pregnancies than do “blue” states, they have a lower percentage of women responding that those pregnancies were “unwanted” and, thusly, have fewer abortions when compared to their "blue’ counterparts, who are more likely to label unintended pregnancies as “unwanted”.
The low rates of abortion is “red” states is a consequence of women in “red” states choosing to carry a greater percentage of their pregnancies to term than are “blue” states, whereas the high abortion rate in “blue” states is a consequence of women in “blue” states being more apt to label it as “unwanted” and having an abortion. Looking at the data, you can conclude that the biggest determinant of the abortion rate isn’t whether or not a pregnancy was “unintended”, but rather on whether or not a woman labels that pregnancy as “mistimed” or “unwanted”. In which case, “blue” states need to do a better job of getting their unintended pregnancy rates down, since they’re more apt to abort those pregnancies than are their “red” state counterparts.
So when will you accept that conservatives actually practice what they preach, unlike their liberal counterparts who go on and on and on about the high incidence of abortion, yet are the main reason for it, and sometimes celebrate it?
(Hell, look at YogSosoth’s post.)
It’s called personal responsibility, something liberals don’t understand. Sex has consequences; if you can’t stand the thought of being pregnant, keep your legs closed, as sex is the only way to conceive (IVF notwithstanding, of course. So simple, it hurts.
It’s funny how no Democrat has the balls (or ovaries) to go on TV and say this. And why would they? They’d instantly lose millions of voters, which is why they instead hide behind euphemisms like “women’s rights” or “reproductive freedom” or whatever other term they’re using now. But it’s nothing most of us pro-lifers already know, so that’s that.
As a side note, I’m always amused by the fact that people who are in no danger of being aborted somehow resort to the “Well, it wouldn’t faze me if I found out I was!” line. Well, ugh… No shit, considering you’re born. If you were in danger of having your brains sucked out, your lungs collapsed or your body dismembered, your tune wouldn’t be quite the same as it is now.
Oh? You mean you’ve never heard the claim that, say, Western Europe has a lower abortion rate than the U.S. because of their liberal policies on abortion (which, actually, are more conservative than the U.S.) and that Republican policies cause there to be more abortions?
I’m just checking here to be sure.
Do you actually know any liberals? You don’t seem to know how actual liberal humans think… as a liberal human, I’d be happy to help, if you’re interested.
See above. Since young people have always been having lots of sex, and always will, and we have the ability to reduce the negative consequences, we should. Also, liberals in general don’t think of most sex as sinful and dirty. And, of course, the liberals who think like me about abortion believe that government should not infringe on the bodily autonomy of individuals to expel things from their bodies that they don’t want inside them.
Ok, I’ll go on record and say that I oppose post-birth abortions. Unless one person has entered another, and the second person wants the first person out- then the second person can abort the first.
The conservative approach to education.
Why do you consider that a good thing?
Since I’m sure he wouldn’t stray off topic(“Make Abortion Funny”), could somebody please explain OMG’s joke to me-I don’t think I got the punchline.
Usually I hear the claim that Western Europe has a lower abortion rate because they have comprehensive sex education and more readily available birth control instead of assuming that even uttering the word “sex” in the presence of teens will magically cause them to go hump like rabbits.