Oh, btw, what did Walker do when he was County Commissioner?
Are we offered to admire his consistency? Did he flaut his anti-union sentiments during his campaign? I honestly don’t know, but I very much doubt it, if I were to guess, I’d bet he talked accomodation, working across the lines, yadda blah, yadda blah.
The question arises whether or not his program is an honest reflection of the will of the people. And the entire legitimacy of any government rests on that question. The Democrat’s action may violate a principle of republican governance, but it affirms the moral foundation that principle rests upon.
TL:DR He sold the people of Wisconsin an agenda, if union busting wasn’t an explicit, stated goal of that agenda, he was pulling a slow one.
If the majority in the legislature acts in ways that violate the will of the majority of their constituents they won’t be reelected. That’s the way it works. And that’s true whether it’s about unions or taxes or abortion or whatever. You support what the Senate Democrats are doing because you’re opposed to the bill, methinks. If the shoe were on the other foot, would you still support the tactics? If it were a bill with an issue important to you?
They aren’t breaking any laws. This is a perfectly valid tactic. They are representing their constituencies in a perfectly legitimate way. It’s at least as legitimate as a filibuster.
[quote=“pkbites, post:56, topic:571743”]
In a cheap hotel in northern Illinois?[/quotw]
Yep. They should be commended for their sacrifice.
Political courage and cowardice is measured entirely at the polls.
Like the polls that the Republicans won (Governors Mansion, State Senate, State Assembly) in Wisconsin last November? With wide margins in each.
Your side lost. It may win again in November of 2012. But until then what the Dems are doing is disgraceful, and cowardly.
Not to mention, ineffectual!
Governor Walker is going to get what he wants on this one. Your side is going to lose, and, also, look stupid and cowardly in the mean time.
This is a losing tactic.
What, am I innocent of liberal hypocrisy? Wait a second, let me get my communion dress out of storage, already got the big brown innocent eyes…
I, himself, the elucidator, do solemnly swear with as straight a face as ever I’ve worn, I am utterly and entirely innocent of liberal hypocrisy. In this particular instance. Specific to this issue alone, not transferable to any other issue whatsoever.
Your principle rests upon the will of the people, as well it should. Well, then, is this reflective of said will, did he run on a platform of union busting? In Wisconsin? As I said, I don’t know for a fact, he may also have run on an agenda of outlawing cheese and football. Pending evidence, I’m inclined to doubt it.
If he ran as Dennis Kucinich and then decided after the inaugaration that he was Vladimir Lenin, he doesn’t enjoy the blessings bestowed by the will of the people. At least not legitimately. This lack of legitimacy takes a lot of the stuffing out the principle you are so anxious to protect.
All those Democrats won too. Politics is about constituencies, not “sides.” Those Democrats are doing what they were elected to do by their own constituencies.
ETA Walker is looking like a buffoon, just for the record. His own state is already mobbing the streets in protest against him. This was an epic fail on his part. His union busting garbage is not going to go down. He’s already politically dead.
Except when Republicans do it, they are “being obstructionist,” which you see as a bad thing. IOKWADDI, right?
Depends on what’s being obstructed. It may or may not be a good thing. Either way, I wouldn’t say they’re not representing their constitutencies. In fact, in the case of the Republicans running shit scared of their racist, teabagger constituencies,I say they’re pandering to them.
Perhaps you are a paragon of virtue on this issue. I’m not so intimately familiar with your posting history as to know. But there have been lots of liberal dopers getting on the Republicans’ asses lately about simply being obstructionist. And if they now are OK with the Democrats doing the same thing in Wisconsin . . . well, I’m afraid that yes, Virginia, there is liberal hypocrisy.
By the way, I agree with your post–I think that just saying no is perfectly OK depending on what one is saying no to. So I was fine with the Republicans simply trying to obstruct Obamacare because I believe it’s an absolutely idiotic policy.
Would you mind supplying a cite that shows a Democratic position of running away like a coward to another state rather than stay in the state capitol and represent their constituents?
Out of state Tea Party members are due to arrive in Madison on Saturday to support the Governor that is not theirs. Then again, Jesse Jackson arrived today to continue the battle. At least he is a neighbor from Illinois helping neighbors.
Both parties have histories of preventing a quorum when the business before them is unjust. Abraham Lincoln did it it Illinois.
Since the issue is constantly being defended as Walker et al ‘representing their constituents,’ I thought I should see if I could find out if Walker’s platform involved union-busting. Turns out his web page is still up.
I couldn’t actually find anything about union-busting at a browse-through. Closest I could get was this: http://www.scottwalker.org/issues/government-reform
Doesn’t really say much about unions, really. In fact, what it does say is some stuff about not giving money to special interests, which it appears he’s already done(no cite, just going by what was mentioned upthread. I’m tired :()
So, if anything, it looks like he’s doing everything BUT what he promised.
Except for the all-important tax cuts.
Where?
Where???
???
In one tiny little part of Madison? That’s where they belong. that’s where to go to protest something against the state legislature, but that doesn’t represent the entire state!!!
I left work this afternoon from a government building on north 9th street in Milwaukee (the largest city in the state). If there was any protests to go on, you’d think it would be around a government building in the largest city of the state. Right? Right? Huh?
I saw nothing!
Went down to Lark Uniform located on South Howell Avenue in Milwaukee. Nowhere on the way did I notice any protests going on.
Then I went up to check up on my Ma. Saw no protesters in the streets of Germantown, Jackson, or West Bend. No one was standing by the road waving crazy left wing signs.
And it was petty warm out today for February.
maybe they all went to Madison to wave their signs.
Or maybe Diogenes is just full of ignorant shit?
Didn’t the Demos in the TX state legislature bail when the issue of redistricting came up early in the “2000’s”. I think they bailed out twice to avoid a quorum for a special redistricting session.
You mean like Progressive Change Campaign Committee’s claiming:
Gov. Walker has threatened to call out the National Guard against workers who protest his radical plan to cut benefits of middle class workers and strip them of their rights.
That PolitiFact.com looked at and said: We rate the claim Pants on Fire.
If all that is true, shouldn’t you be encouraging our side to continue such losing tactics? I am always suspicious when my political adversaries appear to give advice that goes against their self-interest.
I don’t really think it’s a losing tactic. The republicans don’t have enough people without the democrats to bring this to the floor by themselves. As long as the democrats stay in Illinois, they can keep the bill from being even brought to the floor. They get loads of free press and national attention and put a spotlight on a bill that thus far nobody in this thread has been willing to defend. It’s possible that they can force the republicans to renegotiate on this just to get them back.
Is there anyone in this thread that thinks this part of the bill is a good idea? Anyone that can give a potential benefit to stripping the unions of their collective bargaining? I can’t figure out a solid one and not seeing one given here makes me think that there isn’t one. It should go without saying that I mean a concrete benefit and not just teaching them durn union what’s what.