are guns simply handed out to soldiers in the armed forces, or is there some effort to correlate gun serial numbers and name rand and serial numbers? is there a difference between firearm distribution in peacetime and wartime?
what about with federal agents (FBI, CIA, Treasury, etc)? i assume that guns are licensed and paperworked to individual agents, but what about in shit-hitting-the-fan situations?
jb
I’m pretty sure there’s no attempt at serial number correlation, you’re just handed whatever is available for issue.
Whenever I’m issued a weapon I sign my name in the armory guy’s records next to the weapon model and serial number; I also make sure I have the serail no. written on a piece of paper somewhere safe, in case I (God forbid) misplace my weapon.
Everything in the military is someone’s responsibility - if it’s in storage, the quartermaster is responsible; if you take something, you have to sign for it. For general equiptment, you should return an equivalent item (nobody cares if you give back a different canteen than the one you got). With weapons, explosives or advanced electronics, you’re expected to return the exact same piece you were issued, or else have a damn good explanation.
Ah, no.
You’re kidding, right?
It used to be that before an exercise, I had to sign for a rifle from our vault and check its serial number at the time. It’s an easy thing to accidentally switch your rifle with another soldier’s on exercise, and some controls are required. That was a few years ago, though, before the new scopes required that each rifle be adjusted to its individual user. As a result, I was assigned a specific weapon.
We never had a big “pile” from which everyone just grabbed. Control of the weapons was strictly enforced.
He asked if weapon serial numbers correlated with the soldier’s serial number, and I answered that there’s no correlation (at least, I doubt so very much).
I didn’t mean to imply that serial numbers weren’t tracked.
In 1975 I was issued an M16A1 rifle. As of today, I still remember the serial number.
Every serviceman has his own rifle. The reason for this is because each serviceman will have to zero in the sights upon initial issue, the first time at the range. The sights are therefore set for that individual serviceman.
Also, servicepeople don’t have serial numbers. They use the old trusty social security number.
And someone earlier mentioned that losing a rifle or firearm was a bad thing. It is a VERY BAD thing! I’ve seen them lock down Military posts(No one comes in, no one leaves, even civilians) if a weapon is lost. I’ve heard of people getting chaptered out and receiving jail time for losing a weapon. I had a buddy who got an article 15, lost his rank, and forfeited pay, all because he stuck his rifle in the trunk of his personal vehicle for a quick trip to the barracks.
In the Army (Danish Army/ Home Guards, anwyay), you sign for everything and anything, even more so for guns. (I, too, recall the serial# of my H&K G3 rifle, issued 1986…)
I’ve done a few mobilization exercizes (intended to simulate wartine procedures ), and while uniforms and the like were handed out a littler more haphazardly, guns were still tallied, registered, signed for and taken very, very seriously. When a bolt for a MG went missing, they stripped and searched the entire company, no exceptions, no excuses.
In actual full-scale battle, of course, anything goes. If the MG gunner stops a bullet, you drop your rifle and grab the more important weapon.
Losing or “breaking” a weapon is a very big deal in garrison or in field training. Not so bad in a combat theater if you have any sort of a believable explanation. If nothing else there will be a report of survey and you will be required to pay for it. Spavined almost had to pay for a tank once.
While almost anything can be forgiven on a report of survey, including driving a dump truck through the guard house on the main gate at Fort Lost in the Woods, if you have lost or broken a personal weapon you had better be prepared to show that the loss was from an act of God that could not be anticipated or prevented. “Well, First Sergeant, I was walking my post in a military manner WHEN I WAS STRUCK BY LIGHTENING AND MY RIFLE MELTED.”
A soldier’s personal weapon usually belongs to his company. It is assigned to him and he is responsible for it whenever it is out of the arms room. When the soldier changes units he does not take the weapon with him but is assigned a new weapon at the new unit.
Even in a total hits-the-fan situation, the higher authorities would still know that serial numbers X, y, z, etc. were issued to the armory at unit A when they were required by Operation Fanstrike to grab the guns and run. You can bet your butt that in any civilized service, the authorities have records on records as to the disposition and location of every single weapon everywhere, especially easily portable personal weapons.
I was a vehicle mechanic in the USAF. I was never issued a weapon outside of basic training. There was no need. However…
One day I was given a work order for a chevy Peacekeepr. It’s basicaly a Chev 1 1/2 ton truck with a lightly armored body. Our security police used them to patrol the base. Here is a pic of one…
http://www.policecarsales.com/buz/81dodgepeace.jpg
They had a real problem with dashboard fires. The ampmeter in them was designed for a 60 amp alternator, but they came equipped with a 100 amp alternator to run all the radios, lights etc, thus the ampmeter would eventualy burn out, sometimes dramaticaly.
Well I drive this thing into the shop. As I am going over the thing, lo and behold, there lies an M-freeking-16 rifle in the back, fully loaded.
Well, I stuff my eyes back into my head and go get my supervisor. He takes one look and says something to the effect of “Oh shit.” He then gets contacts the the S.P.s .
When the guy from the security police gets there, he says somthing to the effect that someone was gonna be in a big heap of trouble over this.
I seem to remember that the guy who “lost” the rifle spent some time in Corrective Custody, after losing all his rank.
He was lucky.
I was the Comm Chief for my USMC reserve unit for a few years and every single radio unit was accounted for be serial number, moreso the crypto gear, which could only be assigned to officers or staff NCO’s (or other comm guys with clearance.) Weapons, each and every one, were signed out, one at a time, and accountability was paramount.
Some of this is a more recent invention - while I don’t doubt that the modern military keeps tight track of weapon SNs, I know that the US army in WW2 didn’t keep such tight track. It ranges from very hard to simply impossible to track down the basics like ‘US, Pacific, or European’ of where a particular gun went by serial number (as I discovered trying to track the history on my Garand). I suspect that modern computers are the big reason why (though a ‘big combat situation’ also helped); while the quartermaster for a unit did keep up with the SNs on the weapons he handed out, it simply wasn’t collected and kept anywhere because it would take a lot of work for no real benefit.
I wonder how long the modern SN records are kept, though - while I don’t doubt that the army can find who has M-16 ABC-123 right now, I don’t know whether they’d keep a record for who had it in 1985.
Riboflavin, did you get your Garand through the CMP?
No, but it was originally a CMP one - the stock was in much better shape than I could expect through CMP. I’ve got the original CMP paperwork, but they don’t have any detailed information; they’re just opening up big old crates of rifles. (If you to talk more on that, let’s take it to email or IMHO to avoid hijaking this thread).
More ‘me too’:
While in the Nav, I pulled Rescue and Assistance detail, which sometimes required issue of weapons. The drill was that R&A would hustle to the armory (or satellite armory), then line-up outside the cage, where they would be issued a weapon. Inside the cage were two armed armorours pulling security, two more breaking out weapons, one recording serial numbers, and the last guy who checked that the number had been recorded before actully issuing the weapon and calling-off the recipient (which was also recorded).
When the Section Leader learned that I could really shoot, I was assigned an accurized M-14, and got to cut to the head of the line, as I was the only guy authorized to be issued that particular weapon, and had to sign about 140 pieces of paper threatening me with all sorts of Fates-Worse-Than-Death, and so didn’t have to go through the “serial number-to-person” process every time.
particlewill, now I want one of those “Peacekeeper” trucks! It’ll make even the Hummer drivers jealous!
FWIW, until around 1919-20, the German Army marked each rifle with the unit it was assigned to. Thus, if you have an old Mauser Model 98, 88, 71/84 or 71, it is possible to identify the unit to which it was assigned, though at times the codes can be difficult to decipher.
My model 71 has marks indicating where (which unit) it was assigned to and marks for each trip to the depot for overhaul. Most all removeable parts also are marked with the reciever’s serial number, ensuring that all the original parts went back onto the same gun. It’s an amazing example of German over-thoroughness.