Governor Jerry Brown signs assisted suicide bill.

The BBQ Pit
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Right now, my 90 year old father is in hospice care. He is in bed, lying on his back. He can move his arms and legs somewhat, but not with any usefulness. He can’t do more with his fingers than grasp your hand if you offer it. He can sometimes enunciate clearly enough so that my stepmother can understand what he’s saying, but usually not. He’s trapped within himself. We know he’s periodically in pain - or at least was, when he could still talk better. At any rate, the only thing that will end his pain and imprisonment within his failing body is death.

I don’t know whether he would want to short-cut the process of dying. But dammit, it should have been an option, one that he could have elected or rejected.

At a recent visit, as I was leaving, I said, “hang in there, Dad.” And almost immediately, as I was walking out the door of his room, I thought: hang in there? To what end? There’s no “hang in there, things are going to get better,” because in this life, at least, they aren’t. Things will only get worse until his body finally gives out completely.

If one must persevere under these circumstances, there’s no benefit, nothing to be gained, through perseverance. So why persevere? Why not have the right and the opportunity to say, “fuck it, I’m skipping this last part of the road. Gimme that pill, and I’m outa here” ?

Because if I find myself in a similar situation in 30 years’ time, that’s damn sure what I’ll want to do. Having seen the last weeks of a number of elderly relatives now, I’m not nearly so afraid of death itself as I am of having to live through the endgame where one is helpless even to communicate.

My father may have another few months ahead of clinging to life. Or he may only have a couple of weeks. I pray that it’s the latter. He’s had a long and good and largely happy life, and it’s hard to see that this is adding anything meaningful to it. I go to see him because he’s still in there, and he needs those of us who love him at this time more than ever. But I pray that this doesn’t go on much longer. It shouldn’t have to, and he should have been able to choose for it not to if that was his choice.

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Why is this thread in The Pit?

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I skipped most of the thread after Smapti hijacked it, but let me add another comment from a right-thinking person:

I’ve never been your situation, but here is my experience, FWIW. A year ago our 18 year old cat finally suffered a stroke after about 6 months with various organs gradually failing. The morning we got up to find she’d had a stroke, I knew it was her time. I’d never actually euthanized a pet before, having grown up in rural america where the local traffic tended to take care of that for us (not that I liked that). So this was my first experience making that hard call. It felt very much like playing God, making that decision. But as I stood there holding her as the doctor administered the shots, I realized that my decision was the MOST RESPONSIBLE, MOST LOVING thing I could do for her at that moment in time. After giving her a happy and healthy, long life, with proper food, love and vetting, delivering her gently into the arms of God was the ultimate act of love. And that was a cat. It’s abominable that we can’t do the same for our human loved ones.

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What’s really funny is Smapti’s previously said he’s against advance directives, when it would really be in his best interest to have one. That way, if he’s ever incompacitated and unable to speak for himself, he’d have his wishes spelled out. “If I’m ever in a state where I can no longer communicate and must have someone else do so on my behalf, these are my wishes in case of…blah blah blah”. That way, no one can “pull the plug” on him, make the decision to withhold treatment, etc. (I’m guessing he confused it with a DNR?) It’s not something I’d want, but if he lets people know what he wants clearly, ahead of time, and put it in writing, he won’t end up in a Teri Schiavo situation with family fighting over what her wishes might have been.

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Cupcakes can deal with his own stupid opinion. Seriously, just live with it.

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From what Idle Thoughts said, it was because the OP somehow seemed angry:

The OP and everyone else seemed fully supportive and happy about Governor Brown’s decision until Smapti came in to voice loud, irrational dissent, so… maybe Idle Thoughts just didn’t want to name names?

There was no argument or even disagreement until Smapti started posting. That’s part of what I found so interesting, when I made the post I later had to explain to the rest of the posters: The fact our nearly-unanimous opinion is so contrary to what traditional morality has always held on this issue, to the point anyone defending the previous consensus seems like a lunatic.

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The thing is, I have heard many rational anti-assisted suicide arguments. I don’t find them convincing, but it’s possible to make them. Smapti, however, is not making rational/traditional arguments he’s just being a fucking douche and polluting yet another thread with his incessant trolling.

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Schiavo could NOT give consent. Her brain had turned to goo that could not be repaired.
It was none of Jeb Bush’s fucking business, none of yours, none of mine.

BTW, we had this entire goddamn argument already, last year:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-737787-p-2.html

And another one earlier this year, in which you never responded to some questions I asked twice; see post #240:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=699353&page=5

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Well, Idle Thoughts did say the OP and that’s me. I think he misunderstood my original post and I hope he corrects his misunderstanding because I’d hate for it to affect his opinion (if any) of me.

As for Smapti. I don’t understand him at all. He’s not even religious so it makes absolutely no sense to me.

Making abortion a legal choice for women, has not led to forcing all women to have abortions and giving people a choice to die in a more dignified manner, when they have been certified to be within 6 months of death anyway, will not lead to the government killing people.

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I think the people who oppose this are imagining a slippery slope, like “background checks for gun purchases lead to gun confiscation”. It’s absurd, of course; but it does have an internal consistency where everything is a conspiracy that leads to mandatory <fill in their worst fear here>. They can’t help themselves; it’s like a Kevin Bacon game of suck in which everything good can lead to something bad in a convoluted and insane linkage.

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Yeah, but that’s only because you’re a subhuman piece of shit.

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Nm. Over the top.

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Went last night to my cancer patient support group, and the subject of the bill came up. To a person, we were happy and relieved that Brown had signed it. Just knowing the option is there is a relief.

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If my existence is going to be nothing more than unrelenting misery from something incurable, with intractable pain and no hope left, being totally bedridden and dependent, I would very much prefer not to exist any further.

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There’s a method of assisted suicide that Smapti would heartily endorse:

1- Draw a picture of a gun
2- Hold the picture in your hands
3- Walk within 50 feet of a cop
4- Say “boo!”
5- Die in a hail of gunfire

Smapti has a high regard for life, as long as it’s the right kind of person.

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I do have a question for Smapti. Do you think that people who enter into a hospice arrangement – those who are dying and undergo palliative care – are lazy? After all, these people don’t get out of bed and go to work and instead just lie there, waiting to die. You, on the other hand, manage to force yourself to get up and go to work, despite your pain. But the dying….they just lay there. Since they are not forcing themselves up, like you do, and your pain is totally equivalent to a terminal patient’s. – are they just lazy?

If you DON’T think they are just being lazy, do you think it’s possible that their pain is beyond yours? And frankly, beyond your imagination, and perhaps you should just trust their opinion of the worth of their existence? And therefore, that they are the only ones capable of judging whether they should be forced to continue their existence?

If you DO think they’re just lazy, may god have mercy upon your soul.

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Well, we (as a society) make that decision every single day when convicting someone of a capital crime.

I see absolutely no serious risk that we’ll go down the slope of deciding that grandpa ain’t all there so it’s time to off him.

Laws regarding assisted suicide are pretty clear on your having to make the decision well in advance - and, as I understand it, nobody can even give you the pills when you decide it’s time.

Yes, if a patient is in pain, that should be managed. If you’ve ever watched a terminal cancer patient though, sometimes it simply CANNOT be managed - without sedating them to the point of killing them anyway.

All this law does, is allow you to make the decision on your own, with a more reliable method than simply taking an OD of whatever you have in the house.

As someone who lives in a state that is about as likely to pass such a law as I am to win the next presidential election, you’d better believe I’ve got my living will set up every way I could think of to allow my family to pull the plug when I’m beyond making those decisions for myself. I certainly don’t expect anyone to give me an overdose (though I’ve made it clear that if adequate pain relief speeds things up, that’s OK), just stop doing things to extend my life.

And if I find myself in the position of knowing in advance, I may have to move west.

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I now know of a second person – a friend of a friend – who stopped intake or nourishment and starved to death, as a way of terminating her own life, because of advanced untreatable cancer.

Some people are going to take their own lives anyway. The advantage of this law is that it permits them to do it painlessly, rather than by such work-arounds.

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But what if the people making that leap were policemen ?! You’d be in quite the cognitively dissonant pickle, and no mistake !

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No one is happy. But I’m of the opinion that if a person wants to kill themselves, for whatever non-coerced reason they may have, then they should have the right to do so whether that is because of extreme pain or just because they are bored.
Sol’s death