Grammar quest about words ending in x

[marky33]

Grammar question: I seem to remember being taught, way back in the mists of time, a word ending in -x is the same as one ending in -s when possessional
ie **Alex’ ** hand is the same as James’ hand but not Doug’s hand – is this correct?

[Giles]

@marky33

Grammar question: I seem to remember being taught, way back in the mists of time, a word ending in -x is the same as one ending in -s when possessional
ie **Alex’ ** hand is the same as James’ hand but not Doug’s hand – is this correct?

Since the possessive “s” is pronounced as /z/, and is dropped after a plural ending in the “s” pronounced as /z/, but it’s not dropped after singular words ending in “s” pronounced as /s/, and since “x” at the end of words is usually pronounced /ks/ – I’d use the same rule.

Examples:
bus’s wheels
prospectus’s date
box’s lid
fox’s tail
Alex’s hand
but
gateaux’ icing
(because “gateaux” is usually pronounced with a /z/ sound at the end in English).

[Colophon]

Except it should be James’s, not James’.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Giles

Since the possessive “s” is pronounced as /z/, and is dropped after a plural ending in the “s” pronounced as /z/, but it’s not dropped after singular words ending in “s” pronounced as /s/, and since “x” at the end of words is usually pronounced /ks/ – I’d use the same rule.
gateaux’ icing
(because “gateaux” is usually pronounced with a /z/ sound at the end in English).

Not according to dictionary.com; I’ve never heard that pronunciation.

And the rule I learned was that you’re always safe adding a 's to a word in order to make it possessive. There are conditions under which some folks consider alternatives to be correct, but if you’d rather not learn a set of rules that not everyone will accept anyway, just add 's.

Daniel

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

Correction: I should’ve specified that the 's rule only works for singular words. Since gateaux is plural, adding an apostrophe after it might be correct. I’ve never studied how to possessivify nonstandard plurals.

But this is a sidetrack from the OP; definitely all the words in the OP should have 's added to them.

Daniel

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

Okay, Information on possessive forms of irregular plurals:

With nouns whose plurals are irregular (see Plurals), however, you will need to add an apostrophe followed by an s to create the possessive form.

She plans on opening a women’s clothing boutique.
Children’s programming is not a high priority.
The geese’s food supply was endangered.

Based on this, I’d hesitantly say that you should refer to the "gateaux’s frosting. It’s ugly, but I think it’s standard.

Note that it doesn’t quite fit the examples in the text, since “gateaux” is a word directly borrowed from a language that doesn’t have a possessive noun form. However, it beats the alternatives.

Daniel

[gigi]

@Left Hand of Dorkness

And the rule I learned was that you’re always safe adding a 's to a word in order to make it possessive.

Except “it”. Please God, people, except “it”.

[Giles]

@Left Hand of Dorkness

@Giles

gateaux’ icing
(because “gateaux” is usually pronounced with a /z/ sound at the end in English).

Not according to dictionary.com; I’ve never heard that pronunciation.

I’ve just checked in 3 dictionaries (The Macquarie Dictionary (3rd ed.), The Random House Dictionary (2nd ed., unabridged), and Webster’s Third New International), and they give two alternatives for thecpronunciation of “gateaux”: one with, and one without the final /z/. Note that the “x” in “gateaux” can also be pronounced as /z/ in French, if the next word starts with a vowel (how do you pronounce “beaux arts” in French?)

[Giles]

@gigi

Except “it”. Please God, people, except “it”.

Yes the rule should say “noun”, not “word”, since it excludes pronouns: “its”, “hers”, “theirs” and “yours”.