Greek plane crash victims "frozen solid"?

[zuma]

This makes no sense.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/15/greece.crash/index.html

A Greek Defense Ministry source with access to the investigation told Reuters that most of the bodies recovered were “frozen solid.”

“Autopsy on passengers so far shows the bodies were frozen solid, including some whose skin was charred by flames from the crash,” the source said.

Is this even possible? This idiot reporter maybe should have tried to make sense of this comment… but it is possible for bodies to become frozen solid, and remain frozen upon a crash, and then for whatever time it took for rescue people to arrive?

[zuma]

Also I apologize for kind of being rude and classless, upon reflection, for asking morbid questions about a recent tragedy. I should have offered up the needed sympathy first. So I’ll say here that it is very sad that another plane went down, and I am very sorry for the families of the victims.

[friedo]

It is quite possible for human bodies to become frozen. We’re made out of mostly water, after all. The autopsies would show significant tissue damage from ruptured blood vessels and whatnot, even after a body had been thawed out.

[Shirley_Ujest]

They died while in flight and became frozen because of the depressurization of the cabin. When the plane crashed, it was then they were burned. It is bizarre, indeed.

The only comforting thought would be that they felt no pain.

Not a bad way to go, but it would only be made better if they had just had a nice vacation and not on their way to one.

[vibrotronica]

I’ve been following this story with some interest. I am confused about how such a thing could happen.

If there is a sudden decompression at altitude, say 30,000 ft., isn’t the standard proceedure to deploy the oxygen masks and dive to an altitude below 10,000 feet where the air is breathable and warmer? Why wouldn’t this have worked in this case? Would people freeze to death before the plane made it to warmer air? Did the emergency oxygen system fail along with pressure? Did the depressurization/freezing happen so slowly no one noticed until it was too late?

[Zebra]

I don’t think they were instantly frozen. I’ve seen reports that some of the passengers had their oxygen masks on their faces. So the cabin lost pressure, the masks dropped and at least some of them had time to put the masks on their faces. I also heard that it looks like a stewardess was in the cockpit, perhaps trying to help controll the plane or put a mask on the co-pilot.

The bodies may not be frozen solid but really stiff.

[Shirley_Ujest]

Over at Fark, one of the farkers commented on this in the thread about this crash:

I fly jets for a living, and it initially sounds like a classic rapid or explosive decompression.

If a window blows out at 36,000’, you have only a few seconds of useful consciousness to get your 02 masks on. I have seen military testing videos of pilots in a high altitude chamber, and some of them didn’t even last that long; keep in mind that during the test, they KNEW what was about to happen, and their masks were right in front of their faces.

To be legal, the pilots must have the masks very nearby (usually just behind their heads) so they can sweep them on in a single gesture.

If the 02 masks were deployed in the cabin, it was either because the crew commanded it, or they automatically dropped once the cabin altitude hit a certain limit (usually 13,000 feet pressure altitude).

To me, it sounds like the pressurization failed or a window blew out and the crew wasn’t able to put their masks on in time.

It’s too bad that none of the flight crew were able to go up to the front and make sure the pilots had their masks on, but they could have either been rendered unconscious themselves, or didn’t have access to a portable 02 supply so they could walk forward into the cabin and remain conscious themselves.

Either way, it’s a disturbing situation and my heart goes out to the people involved

[Improv_Geek]

It seems to me like an obvious safety precaution would be for the pilots to fly with their masks on. Or to always have one pilot with their mask on. IANAP but is there any reason that this would be a bad idea?

[RumMunkey]

I’m no pilot by any means, but I did read that the pilot’s last communication to the ground was of an “air conditioning malfunction”.

Is it possible for there to be a slow pressure leak that would at first seem to be an airconditioner out of control?

[Trunk]

@Shirley Ujest

They died while in flight and became frozen because of the depressurization of the cabin. When the plane crashed, it was then they were burned. It is bizarre, indeed.

The only comforting thought would be that they felt no pain.

Not a bad way to go, but it would only be made better if they had just had a nice vacation and not on their way to one.

Except they would have then been out all that money. This way, they get to take it with them.

As for becoming frozen. . .you ever seen videos of people climbing Everest? The plane was a mile above that! It’s pretty damn cold. I don’t know what additional affect the air speed of the plane would have had.

I don’t know how long they were exposed to those temps before going down, but if it was an hour or so. . .they could be frozen solid. You take a steak out of the freezer, it can take all day to defrost. Think about how long it would take a person.

[RumMunkey]

Ah! Here’s that article i mentioned above.

The pilots of the Helios jet had reported an air conditioning problem after takeoff, and a passenger sent a text message to his cousin saying it was freezing in the plane.

On Cyprus, several callers to radio and TV programs said they experienced severe air-conditioning problems on Helios jets in recent months, AP reported.

Some callers said the cabin was freezing and the crew provided blankets, while others said it became unbearably hot.

[bluecanary]

According to the news reports here, a passenger’s text message read to a relative read:

The pilot’s turned blue. My cousin, I bid you farewell, we are all frozen

Horrifyingly, it seems the passengers were, at least for a short time, aware of their impending fate.

[World_Eater]

How would they know the pilot was blue?

Maybe not PC, but I’m curious.

[TellMeI_mNotCrazy]

From what I’ve read, the pilot was not seen in the cockpit when the F 16s went up to check it out, so it’s possible the passenger actually saw him.

[TellMeI_mNotCrazy]

Just noticed this in the article linked in the OP though:

Meanwhile Monday, police in northern Greece said they had arrested a man who said he had received a telephone text message from a passenger on board the doomed plane, according to AP.

Police said the man was Nektarios-Sotirios Voutas, 32, who had told Greek TV stations Sunday his cousin texted him minutes before the crash saying: “Farewell, cousin, here we’re frozen.”

Curious. Why would he lie about it? And I remember hearing about the SMS not long after the initial reports of the crash - so either he’s telling the truth, had a lucky guess, or knew something maybe he shouldn’t have known?

[velvetjones]

This is such a sad thing. I’m so sorry for the victims and the families of the victims. I hope they can figure out what happened and possibly prevent it in the future. I had all the same questions, why didn’t the crew put masks on? Did the passengers have masks on? What caused the sudden depressurization?

Tragic.

[Nic2004]

Seems odd. With pilots and passengers blacking out in an explosive decompression it seems odd for a passenger to have the time and presence of mind to send a text message.
I see on preview a post from TellMeI’mNotCrazy about the arrest and doubts of this call. Like you, it seems to me that report was almost immediate to the crash.
Also, they are wondering who was flyingthe plane for the last hour. They don’t seem to think auto-pilot was responsible.
My sympathies to the families. So many children lost in this horrible accident

[TellMeI_mNotCrazy]

Odd, I just noticed part of my cut-and-paste vanished, I’ll try again:

Meanwhile Monday, police in northern Greece said they had arrested a man who said he had received a telephone text message from a passenger on board the doomed plane, according to AP.

Police said the man was Nektarios-Sotirios Voutas, 32, who had told Greek TV stations Sunday his cousin texted him minutes before the crash saying: “Farewell, cousin, here we’re frozen.”

Authorities said they believed the man was lying, and his cousin’s name was not on the Cypriot government’s official list of victims.

(Previously dropped text bolded)

[Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party]

@Nic2004

Seems odd. With pilots and passengers blacking out in an explosive decompression it seems odd for a passenger to have the time and presence of mind to send a text message.
I see on preview a post from TellMeI’mNotCrazy about the arrest and doubts of this call. Like you, it seems to me that report was almost immediate to the crash.
Also, they are wondering who was flyingthe plane for the last hour. They don’t seem to think auto-pilot was responsible.
My sympathies to the families. So many children lost in this horrible accident

The reports I’ve seen suggest that when the Greek Air Force intercepted the plane, they saw the pilots slumped over the controls and an unidentified third person in the cockpit who was still moving.

[Zog_10]

It could also be a situation similar to the Payne Stewart crash of a few years ago. In that case, it is believed that the cabin lost pressure slowly (not explosively) and that passengers passed out and then died from lack of oxygen. The plane flew for hours and finally crashed due to lack of fuel

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