The whole thing is a touchy subject, honey. I am sure that we all understand where you were coming from.
I think I’ve got it…
Do you mean that you hope that they have caught the guy guilty for most of the killings and not just a copycat responsible for only a few?
And I of course apologize on my own part.
Thanks, Scotticher, much appreciated. 
Just wanted to put in my $.02 worth.
I’m a life-long Vancouver area residant. My best friend was a Washington girl until '78, and moved back in '99. She paid quite a bit af attention to the goings-on and kept me updated. I guess as a teenager, living in that area, she kind of had him as her local boogeyman. We didn’t hear about him so much up here, which is surprising, considering that it’s suspected that he was in this area and reaponsible for at least some of the local missing women.
During the late seventies and early eighties we had our own monster-Clifford Olsen. He killed at least nine kids, all elementary school aged. One of them went to Mr zoogirl’s niece’s school. A friend of ours actually grew up with him, and says it was the classic evil stepfather scenario. I guess sometimes monsters are made, not born.
Anyway, I’m very glad he’s not out there any more. I just wish there weren’t any more of him, but it’s just a matter of time until the next one comes along. Sad.
For this reason alone (if guilty) this b@stard should die! You are such a loving person Scotti, that anyone who would seek to diminish such a valuable aspect in our world needs to be eliminated. It grieves me to think that you have had to lose some sense of your generosity and decency over a maggot like this who has only served to harm us all.
If he is indeed an intolerant Bible-thumping scumbag, it should serve notice that religious worship is not the inviolate shield it is so often perceived to be.
I know exactly what you mean, Scotticher. I grew up on an island in the Puget Sound and lived in the PNW until late 1986. My parents live there still, so I visit as often as possible. One of my favorite places growing up was a long stretch of beach that runs along next to undeveloped federal land. I used to always go out there with my parents, and later as a teenager & young adult I would go there alone.
After I had moved to another state I was living in a big city and was very homesick for that peaceful beach. I went home to visit and drove out there to walk, and just sat and looked. For the first time I realized how isolated it is, and how easy it would be for someone to follow me where I would have no escape except into the ocean or over a barbed wire fence and across miles of open fields. I could not make myself get out of the truck, no matter how much I wanted to.
Just this past year I was watching one of those shows about some serial killer. Towards the end of the segment about him they started showing where he was from and where he went to high school. It was my home town and my high school. He graduated the year before I started there. They caught that guy, and I hope they’ve caught the Green River killer, too. I will feel much better knowing there’s one less monster loose in the world.
I also just have to add - damn fine police work! The Green River Task Force must have been a thankless and demoralizing job, but they made it possible to catch this guy all these years later by thinking ahead.
I am a Christian. A born again Christian, and I know that most of you who read this do not think that is necessarily a GOOD thing. Whatever. I believe in the Bible. I do not believe that anyone who truly believes in and practices the teachings of Christ could kill under these circumstances. I see that it is necessary for purposes of war, the necessities of “the good of many as opposed to the good of the few.” I have no answers to this, really. But I do not believe that any true Christian could kill someone the way that these women were killed. They did no harm, they did not fall into any conceivable category where I would personally consider that their death could be considered rational under my faith.
They were people who deserved to live their lives out. They did not deserve to have some “person” come along and deprive them of the right to do whatever they chose to DO with their lives. If this man did in fact read the Bible, then he did not read the same Bible that I read and believe in.
I am sickened and saddened and angry that people are going to think that this monster is a Christian. He is NOT a Christian, or he would not have taken the lives of these women. Nothing in my faith could even remotely be supportive of that. NOTHING!!!
Wow Zenster, that last parting shot was a little overdone, doncha think? I mean, really! Intolerant Bible-thumping scumbag? It takes my breath away. This isn’t even the Pit, and you’re saying, really saying, that assuming this guy is the one true Green River Killer, that he has ANYTHING in common with honest, sincere Christian beliefs? It’s absolutely staggering. Had it ever, just once, occurred to you that in an attempt to allay suspicion from friends, coworkers, and the POLICE WHO’VE HAD THEIR EYES ON HIM FOR DAMN NEAR 20 YEARS, he might choose the facade of self-proclaimed righteousness? Is that the more logical analysis of this than to believe that a Bible quoting man also practices horrendous murder in his off hours?
Geez. Perhaps I didn’t read what you meant to say.
Scotticher, you are of course, quite right. The killer is not Christian, no matter how much Bible-reading he has done, nor does where he has or has not done that reading matter.
For those who think that reading the Bible and claiming to be Christian actually makes you Christian, a little light reading:
These are the words of the Lord, saying that all who falsely claim to worship Him will be denied. It is my faith and belief that the Green River killer, whomever he may be, and whatever he may claim to be, will be denied by the Lord. He can “thump” all the Bibles he wishes, he’s still not Christian.
I read somewhere(I think it was the book by the FBI’s first profiler) that the FBI though the Green River Killer was actually several different killers working independently of each other. He called the area a rich ‘hunting ground’ for serial killers because the highway running through the area attracted transient prostitues and teenage runaways, i.e, people who would not be immediately missed. IIRC, he said a single killer responsible for all the deaths was ‘unlikely’.
I passed over the Bible reading reference in my earlier post, not wanting to get into that particular area on this thread, but since it’s been brought up, here goes.
By now you all know I’m a regular Church-going, Sunday School-teaching Christian! I don’t know what kind this guy is, but it’s surely no relation to Christianity as I know it! Our Church is full of people who try their best to care for each other. We’re a young Church, and a lot of us are fairly new at the whole thing, so we tend to be on the enthusiastic side. I think, since we can fairly safely call the killer a sick person, that his approach to religion is probably twisted too. Maybe he was brought up in a dysfunctional family, where religion was used as a tool for repression, to the point that his rebellion took the form of murder. We won’t really know until he starts to talk.
Anyway, he’s surely no kind of a role-model for Christianity!
That would be John Douglas and the book is Journey Into Darkness. There were substantial differences between the methods used on the victims. IIRC he thought the first 3-4 were committed by the same person – if so, it looks like they caught the person responsible at last. He believed, I think, that there were 3 or 4 killers at least operating at the same time.
I am glad to hear of some answers at last in this case.
I am almost certain that is one of the two books I have (somewhere) that I read on the subject. If I remember correctly the task force went through a lot of inner turmoil and hell trying to solve this case.
It’s amazing when one of the great unsolved mysteries of our time is actually solved. I hope that in some small way, this gives some measure of peace to the families of the vicitims. Reading the linked articles, I also felt incredibly moved by the detectives who have been working on this case for so long.
One thing has left me sort of puzzled. I don’t know much about serial murders, other than what I see on 20/20 and read in “true crime” books. But it was my impression that most serial murderers don’t stop killing once they get started. For those of you in the area, has any of the local coverage commented on this? Any theories as to why this guy apparently stopped his murder spree?
My theories :
There was a chain of very similar homicides in Vancouver after the Green River killings - some think the killer moved there. It’s also possible that he didn’t stop, but the bodies of the victims he may have killed later have not been recovered. It’s also possible he had a near-miss and was almost caught - and thus got much more cautious and maybe quit. I would be interested to know what the media is saying about this as well.
Perhaps you didn’t. Did you see the term Christian used anywhere in my statement? No? Well, golly gee, that’s why it’s not there. My statement is directed at the twisted sort of b@stards that use their perceived religosity as a justification for all sorts of evil and sick crap. <Insert obligatory Taleban reference here> This maggot seems to have thought that all protitutes were unworthy of life and sought to eliminate them from the world. We can only hope in turn that such a worm will be scoured from our lives.
I have been robbed and assaulted by fundamentalist, so-called “Christians” and have long ago learned to distinguish between those who espouse the doctines of Jesus and those who truly live by them. Your willingness to think that I would even attribute a shred of Christianity to such an evil toilet trout is your own problem and not mine.
I’ll address the question about the Vancouver connection. (Before I begin, thanks to Zyada and others who expressed appreciation for what I wrote. I was just being honest; I’m glad it meant something to you.)
The first Green River Killer body appeared in 1982. The last for-certain GRK body was found in 1989, though there are others that are suspected to be additional victims that weren’t found until later, into the early 90’s. However, the last disappearance (as I recall) was in 1984. In other words, some victims weren’t found for five years or more; some vanished women have never been found at all.
Now, in Vancouver, women started disappearing in 1986. I don’t recall the exact numbers, but since then, I think, 50 or 60 have gone missing over the years, with a similar but not identical MO as in the GRK case. Consider the timing: The last confirmed GRK victim in Washington State vanished in 1984. The first Vancouver victim, as far as they know, died (or disappeared) in 1986. The activity “overlap” is apparently due to the fact that corpses kept turning up around the Green River for years after the women went missing.
The theory, then, is that the killer originally operated around the Green River. After a couple of years, there was just too much attention focusing on the area, so he shifted his habits elsewhere. The bodies kept being found around the Green River, though, so even though the killer wasn’t working locally any more, it kept the investigation (perhaps inappropriately) geographically focused. The serial killer very likely kept murdering people, just in a new location; hence the Vancouver connection. In addition, there are a number of bodies in Oregon that investigators believe may be related. And as it turns out, the suspect they’ve arrested has “an Oregon connection,” though the police haven’t provided details.
So yeah, based on all of this, there’s a better-than-even chance, I think, that the Green River Killer has some association with what happened in Vancouver and Oregon. He kills in Washington State for a couple of years, then when the police attention gets too dangerous, he shifts his operations further afield. Green River victims: 1982-1984. Vancouver victims: 1986-present. Oregon victims: don’t recall, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see they fit the chronology.
And as others have mentioned, authorities are assuming in all of this that at least a few of the bodies are the work of one or more copycats, which interferes with investigators’ ability to piece together the sequence of events. Also, all of this is hypothetical, and as yet unproven in any legitimate sense. But in general, the chronology is highly, highly suggestive.
Oh, and re the “Christian” thing, if this guy turns out to be the perpetrator, he is no more a “real” Christian than Osama bin Laden is a “real” Muslim. However, all of his co-workers, based on the available evidence, thought he was as well. And perhaps more importantly, he himself almost certainly believes he is. He may be overcompensating, either for subconscious reasons or for camoflage, but some of the GRK sites includes paraphernalia that indicated some sort of ritual highly reminiscent of Christian traditions. This says absolutely nothing at all about other, “true” Christians. The only point to be made is that one can’t tell anything from self-identification; as Tranquilis quotes, by their fruit shall you know them.
Or to put it another way-- Aggressively fundamentalist-slash-missionary-type Christian people sometimes get mad at me when I don’t automatically assume they’re a good, righteous person simply because they call themselves a Christian. Well, no wonder: I don’t know anything about them except what they’re telling me. Or, as my lovely wife katrina says above, “We have crazies everywhere and no particular group can validly claim that membership in their group necessarily grants a ‘highly moral citizen’ card.” I will judge you based on your deeds and character, not by the bumper stickers on your car, the jewelry you wear, or the book you carry, thank you very much.
Nice.
Thanks for the info.
This man probably believes himself to be a Christian. The same way the father who beats his daughter to death with an electrical cord does (spare the rod spoil the child). Mental illness allows evil people to believe they are doing gods work. This is NOT Christianity. It is pure evil. Even if the man only committed four of these horrible murderers
he must be removed from society forever.
As to why the DNA technology finally came through after a sample was first taken in 1987: (this from the Seattle P-I)
The suspect in the Green River killings was identified using a relatively new kind of DNA technology that owes its existence to an eccentric scientist who advocates using LSD and to a bacterium found in the hot springs of Yellowstone National Park.
It’s called polymerase chain reaction, or PCR, and it’s rapidly becoming one of law enforcement’s most powerful scientific tools. “PCR acts as a chemical photocopier,” said Dr. Beverly Himick, a forensic scientist at the Washington State Patrol Crime Lab. PCR can start with the tiniest DNA sample, Himick explained, and create identical copies at a rapid rate until investigators have enough DNA to compare in tests.
“That’s great for forensics because we often get only small amounts,” she said.
George Johnston, the crime lab’s quality-assurance manager, noted that at the beginning of the Green River murder spree, forensic scientists could only compare blood types and other crude evidence. DNA typing came in the early 1990s, Johnston said, but the technique back then required large samples in order to do accurate comparisons.
About the same time, Kary Mullis was a chemist at the University of California-Berkeley focusing on catalysts. He was also experimenting with recreational drugs, as recounted in his autobiography, “Dancing Naked in the Mind Field,” along with exploring the feasibility of travel in astral planes. This was Berkeley, after all.
Mullis had come up with the concept of PCR in the mid-1980s, for which he eventually won the Nobel Prize. But it took years for the technique to be perfected and accepted as reliable before it could be accepted in forensics.
Mullis’ PCR technique works by first breaking apart the double-stranded DNA helix and exposing the two single strands to a soup containing enzymes known as “polymerases” and the four basic building blocks of DNA, nucleotides known as A, C, T and G.
One of the polymerases first used in PCR came from a bacterium found in Yellowstone’s hot thermal pools, appropriately known as Thermus aqauticus.
The polymerases use the nucleotides floating around in the soup to rebuild each single strand back into a complete double helix. Where there was once just one complete strand of DNA, with PCR you get two … then four, eight, 16, 32, 64, 128 and so on, until you halt the reaction.
“It hasn’t been available to us until recently,” Johnston said.
Three cheers for the drug-addled scientist.