The President of the United States is going to take control of it directly. Cite that you’re not smart enough to understand that this is a party grab for power.
I call ad hominem. I win.
It’s a Sun-tsu military strategy (keep your friends close, and your enemies closer). He takes a senior Republican out of circulation (ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee) and makes him a figurehead for a political power play with the 2010 census.
No actually you lose. I asked you to cite that you’re NOT smart enough to understand it. I know that you understand the political power grab the President is making with the census.
If you guys got nothing to add to the topic of the OP, get a room.
There are literally a thousand different policy provisions that a commerce sec would have to deal with. Maybe he though he’d agree 90% of the time, and after more and more discussion realized it’d be more like 70-80% agreement, and he decided that was not enough. Maybe he was told that he’d be mostly free to fill out his staff how he liked, and then was told that a couple of his choices were nixed. Maybe he asked if the census was the last thing that’d be taken from him, and he was told there were no guarantees. Maybe, on reflection, he wasn’t sure that at age 61 he had the energy to do the job well enough. Maybe his fellow senators told him that in his confirmation hearings they’d be asking him exactly where he and Obama differed, and he decided that wasn’t a situation he wanted to be in. Hell, maybe Rahm Emmanuel told him that his weekly meeting with the boss was going to be on Tuesdays, and that’s Gregg’s bowling night.
There are literally thousands of perfectly plausible explantions that involve nothing more pernicious than “I made a mistake.” Why allow yourself to default to assuming the worst of people just because they differ from you politically?
*Isn’t that exactly the kind of mindset that Obama has said he wants to change? *
I am not familiar with the ins and outs Gregg’s political career. Certainly there are more than a few congresspeople in both parties that have made plenty of stupid moves in their life and yest keep going. You’d think that big-time politicos who know they might be in confirmation hearings would pay their freaking taxes; and yet without even trying to, we managed to find three who didn’t. These are not supermen we’re dealing with, any of them.
It wasn’t a job remotely important enough for press conferences and the like, but I think they probably had gotten as far as calling up at least some of the other applicants and giving them the bad news. I was fully aware that I was causing them grief and I was quite embarrassed. But what’s the alternative – take the job, be miserable from day one and then quit after 3 months? Who does that help?
Actually, it does. You asked why conservatives were saying Obama screwed up again. Here is a reason why - because he screwed up his Cabinet selection, by his own admission. The Gregg thing is a further example.
Regards,
Shodan
Obama isn’t the one who screwed up here, though. Gregg promoted himself for the position, then decided to withdraw in pretty much the most flamboyant way possible.
Why was his selecton of Gregg such a screw up? Obama wanted bipartisanship, Gregg is an honorable man and wanted the job at the time. Obama had no way of knowing that he was going to change his mind. Was Gregg not a good man for the job?
Magiver, the notion that “a power grab of the census” is “Chicago politics at its worst” is just stunningly insupportable. There are really good reasons why Chicago politics got a bad name and they weren’t petty.
Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think a Democratic Congress would have had to add animal shelter funding to the stimulus package if Bush had taken over the Census because they would be having kittens over it.
We have perfectly sound and sensible reasons to dread any power, of any kind, going into such tainted and incompetent hands. You may have noticed. Until such a time as you have a comparable reason to suspect the Obamaviks of perfidy on the same demonstrated level, please accept my kind invitation to stuff the pie hole.
It’s not because they differ from me politically. Hey, there are several things in Gregg’s record that I really like; he’s actually got a pretty good record on the things that matter to me. I have no ill will towards him, but it just coincides so beautifully with the partisan threat of a lawsuits and partisan wrangling over the stimulus, and he’s not really offering any explanations other than “Oops, my bad,” it’s incredibly easy to look askance at this little brouhaha. Call me cynical.
It doesn’t seem to working out so well for him, wouldn’t ya say?
I don’t see the point in rehashing all that as it would be off-topic (although I think your statement misrepresents Killefer, who paid her taxes three years prior to accepting a cabinet nomination and five months after incurring the lien). Regardless, the situation clearly sucks for the Administration. But at least Daschle (not Killefer, imho) had pretty damn clear reason for stepping down. As for Geithner, two-thirds of the Senate, including Gregg and several other Republicans, voted for his confirmation, so his error couldn’t have been all *that *bad.
Since I’m not speculating that there heretofore undiscovered skeletons in the Gregg closet, I’m going on what he’s told me, which is that he has suddenly realized he’s not up for the job. Amateur move? Probably not, given his experience and the fact that he made the first move on the nomination. Dick move? Possibly, but I see nothing in his character to indicate as much. Chess move? Now we’re getting somewhere. Having a Republican within the Obama Administration muddies the waters and makes the Republican agenda somewhat more complicated. Much better to maintain an us-and-them strategy. Besides if they want to file a lawsuit against the Administration over 2010 census mishandling, it’s better to not have one of your guys in charge of the very cabinet post that is responsible for the Census Bureau. Logistical nightmare and wouldn’t you like to be the guy in the middle of that mess? That said, I don’t think Gregg masterminded this, I think his loyalty to his party is behind the decision. I feel he was likely pressured.
Well, nobody said working for the guvmint is all hookers and blow and everything nice. It’s a service position, there’s gonna be grief. It’s going to be frustrating, especially if you are willing to jump into a position of being odd man out at the watercooler. If everyone quit because they were miserable, the unemployment rate would be catastrophic. I thought, given his experience, he could have made a damn good Commerce Secretary. The unfortunate thing is that I think his announcement that he won’t run again in 2010 is an indication that he realizes he’s just made a career-ending move. What makes it unfortunate is that not only did we lose an excellent candidate for Commerce, but a socially moderate Republican senator with a relatively good environmental record to boot. In a word, disappointing.
But there’s more to it than “oops.”
Not so far, no. And some of the blame for that falls on Obama’s supporters, and some even on the man himself.*
I mean, we heard all this talk in the campaign about how Obama was going to change the tone of government, and yet less than a month into his presidency, we have hard-core Obama supporters letting fly with the most venomous invective they can muster over something Rahm Emmanuel himself says “no hard feelings” about. If they lose their desire to win hearts and minds over shit this piddly, it makes me wonder if they ever really had it to begin with.
Yes, it is off topic; my point was just that these people in washington that we think are so politically savvy (and are, usually) occasionally do very stupid things. I don’t think it’s sound to assume “he can’t be this stupid;” sure he can.
To me, this is all akin to assuming that when Bush or Biden say one of the stupid things they are famous for that there must be something “behind it.” Bush is a graduate of Harvard and Yale and a longtime politician who sometimes sounds as if he’s never been on a stage before; Biden has been in politics for decades and he still occasionally says things that make his supporters reach for the duct tape. It happens.
I find it completely plausible for a human being to simply change his mind; and it’s always been my practice to take people at their word unless I had real, concrete reasons to think otherwise ---- especially in regards to what’s going on inside their own heads.
*For the reading impaired in the audience: the word “some” is included for a reason.
I am overjoyed that Gregg pulled his name out of the process.
There is only one reason he should have been nominated in the first place and that is if it meant replacing him with a Democrat to hit the magic number of 60 in the Senate.
The man is a right wing conservative. I am glad he is gone.
It’s a wonderful goal to want to operate in some kind of fair and balanced universe, where everyone takes everything at face value, but it’s naive to believe that politics isn’t about agenda. Everyone has an agenda. Obama has an agenda. Gregg has an agenda. The Democrats have an agenda, and so do the Republicans. It’s these agendas that, by and large, dictate the big decisions, whether they are good or bad. Some are self-serving, some are not. Sometimes personal sacrifices are made to serve a grander agenda. Is that cynical or off-base?
I, for one, happen to believe there was an agenda for Gregg’s withdrawal and I’ve outlined why I believe that what I think it is. Hell, I could be wrong, but from where I’m standing, perception is that this doesn’t look good or bode well for Gregg, Obama Administration, or the Republicans.
Well, each side has their extremists. I don’t see why you don’t toss the liberal invective on the same heap as that of the Husseiners and casually dismiss it. I can appreciate that we’re continuing this discussion because, although we’ve come to different conclusions, neither of us are foaming at the mouth. That said, it’s not what your OP was really focused on. I realize now you opened this up to escape those freaking out over partisan-politics-as-usual.
I’m certain you’re right, but I don’t think that standard answer to “oops, my bad” is all that convincing in this case. The guy clearly isn’t this stupid, but it’s sort of a catch 22 because I’d like to say that he just flushed his career down the crapper, which actually is pretty stupid considering how well he seemed to be doing in the Senate. Have you seen his electoral history? Not too shabby. But now not running in 2010? Hmm…just seems like there’s something he’s not telling us.
However, in absence of additional info, I’m gonna go with run-of-the-mill partisanship. Either way, it serves the Republican agenda nicely.
Well, I’d say there is something “behind it” and the reasons are pretty well-known. The Ivy League-educated Bush learned quickly that the good ole boy performance sold very well, hence a ranch in Crawford and a good ole southern “aww, shucks” demeanor. I’m just a simple guy, ya know? As for Biden, only a fool would miss the obvious foot-in-mouth disease he’s afflicted with. You know, the smart guy whose mouth runs at higher RPMs than his brain does. Sure, he may be intelligent but lacks the social intelligence to pick up on subtle social cues and says things before he realizes in his head that it’s not going to come out quite the way he intends for it to sound. Nearly everyone does this at one time or another, Biden just happens to be pretty exceptional at it.
However, neither of these examples is quite akin to hasty or thoughtless decision making, particularly for such a unique appointment that Gregg, bucking tradition, apparently sought out.
I agree, but be honest and tell me that you do understand that if Gregg’s move *is *truly a partisan move, he’s not going to readily admit it in a public statement or press conference. And once again, since he really hasn’t given any explanation to his “boy, what was I thinking?” statement, inferences will understandably be made based on standard political behavior.
I’m not shocked by partisanship, but it’s disappointing to see in any shape or form. I suppose I should admit that I believe, barring personal/family strife or illness, I would have had more respect for Gregg for manning up and doing the best job he could do as Commerce Secretary, in spite of and probably due to, his being a Republican in a Democratic administration. It says a lot about a guy that seeks out and carries out what would have to be a damn challenging job and historical, to boot.
Actually, he’s not. He’s rank-and-file, just to the right of moderate. Not all Repubs are right-wing conservative bible thumpers and painting them all as such only makes you appear as extreme to the opposite end of the meter.
I don’t agree with all of his votes and stances, but he scares me a lot less than oh perhaps quite a few of his colleagues.
It was Obama’s mistake to believe the repubs actually wanted to work together. They are clearly going to fight every move he makes, every breath he takes.
The repubs are really upset that the captains of industry and finance have been questioned. They are our betters and they just want the country to succeed.(if a profit can be made off it).
Sorry I disappeared – real life intruded, though I think we’re mostly done anyeay.
Agreed, and I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on our presuppositions.
You’re right; I was hoping that some of the frothers in the pit thread might con in here, catch their breath and calm down a bit. Forlorn hope.
The thing of it is, I would really, really like to see Obama succeed in ushering in a new era of civility and all that. I was cynical before the election because I don’t think partisanship is a result of evil nasty people on either side, but rather just a bunch of dominant personalities used to getting their way who all really do think they know what’s best. But I was nonetheless hopeful that we could “elevate the tone” to use the cliche, as so many of Obama’s supporters said he (and presumably they) would. I think that hope was why many people voted for Obama, and I think it was shared by many in the center who (like me) did not vote for him, but nonetheless have hopes for his administration.
And thus it was disappointing to see his biggest supporters resorting to over-the-top vitriol over such minor things, and deciding that instead of mending fences they wanted to wage war because the pubs didn’t come around to his line of thinking within the first couple of weeks of his administration. Just feel kind of sad that we, all of us, can’t do better.
Fair enough, and yes, I acknowledge that if you start with the suspicion of less-than super motivations, nothing he’s said is going to assuage them. Of course, not a lot of things *could *assuage them, short of “I just got diagnosed with cancer this week, and here’s the MRI to prove it.”
But we, even those of us that are “his biggest supporters” here, are meaningless in this context. If you think the idea of ushering in a new civility is ever going to have any control over the general population, you’re wrong. Obama was talking about a new civility in DC, between Democratic and Republican public servants in Congress and the Executive. And Obama has bent over backwards to do that and work with the Republicans, who promptly crossed their arms over their chests and shouted, ‘NO!’ I think the last 8 years proved that their favorite economic remedies don’t work for crap and their insistence that the Recovery package include all of that…well, crap…made their response to Obama an obvious non-attempt to meet him halfway. Frankly, there were already too many tax cuts in the bill as it stood…naturally, the Republican-drafted alternative was nothing but tax cuts.
Well, I don’t know. Some tax problems might engender an “Ooooohhhh, I see,” along with a few :smack:s. A sexual indiscretion or two is always good for a juicy bit of RO for some and I can totally see how someone might want to keep that under wraps, especially an upstanding child of God like Gregg. Then again, an illness would be tragic and garner much sympathy, as it should, so you’re right on the money there.
Other than that, I think we’re pretty much on the same page…of a different playbook, albeit, but I’m satisfied. Nice debatin’ with ya. Hope real life is treating you well.