Republican Expresses Concerns Over Dems & Obama

[Bearflag70]

Here is an email I just got from someone I know. The author of the email is a Republican with a libertarian bent expressing concerns over the Dems. He enjoys The Economist magazine and The Cato Institute.

Feel free to feast on it. I don’t have the inclination to refute the various points in depth, but my initial thoughts are below.

There is an old saying that goes something like this: A man who at 20 is not a socialist has no soul. A man who at 40 remains a socialist has no brain. <snip> I know that everywhere it is tried, socialism makes people poorer.

Just look at what the Dem party has done to CA. They have driven it to the edge of bankruptcy. They have driven dozens of businesses out of the state, <snip>. More people are leaving than are coming in, if you don’t count the illegals. The Dems cannot ever tell a union, “No, you have a big enough slice of the pie.” Now they want us all to bail them out with propositions 1A-1F. No way!

Next, look at what Barney Frank and Chris Dodd did to our economy. Sure they had help, but they were prime movers. Look at what Dems have done to Massachiussets and New Jersey. Then compare to some well run states like Texas and Kansas. Compare Mississippi, Republican run, with Louisiana, which was run by Dems until the people got sick of the gross mismanagement.

After screaming bloody murder about Republican corruption, we get two presidential appointees who don’t pay their taxes, a senator who takes favors from a mortgage company and refuses to talk about it, a representative who cheats on his taxes, a governor who tries to sell a senate seat, and it goes on and on. Now we are going to be treated to a new Supreme who puts empathy above the law. “But your Honor, the man is a criminal.” “Yes, but he only had on parent growing up.”

Now a look at our glorious new prez:

First call as prez to Mahmoud Abbas, leader of Fatah

Rude to our best ally, the Brit PM

First one-on-one TV interview was with Al Arabia

First executive order, without thinking through the consequences, was to close Guantanamo Bay. Now he is waffling on that because he can’t figure out how to do it.

Ordered overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.

Withdrew all charges against masterminds of USS Cole attack (as a former USN sailor, I find that personally offensive)

Now spending $20 million of our money to help Hamas refugees come live in the US (executive order).

He is planning the total destruction of the US healthcare industry so it can be replaced with a government bureaucracy, and is lying about his intentions (some Dems openly admit that is what they want to do)

He is trying to make the US economy a socialist economy as in Europe–we will all get poorer

The man is a serpent who speaks with forked tongue. Most of what comes out of his mouth is double talk. Just listen closely.

His Homeland Security director has issued a warning to US law enforcement to be on the lookout for people with right wing views, especially returing veterans–absolutely disgraceful!

He is spending the US into bankruptcy–your kids and my grandkids will have huge tax bills

He is trying to make a gift of Chrysler and GM to the UAW, forcing bondholders to settle for pennies on the dollar. If that doesn’t do those companies in, nothing will. No union has ever successfully run a major company. (<snip> the teacher’s unions have ruined our secondary education system. They aspire to be professionals, but instead of a professional society they run a blue collar union. No wonder they don’t get any respect.)

He is apologizing to everybody in sight for the US being such a terrible country. The man has no sense of history.

That’s about all of the gripes I have at the moment.

1. I didn’t know Obama was a Socialist. What does that mean exactly? Socialism makes people poorer? I didn’t know Europe was poorer than it should be.

2. The Dems have been financially irresponsible in CA? Well, it is hard to blame anyone else.

3. I didn’t know Barney Frank and Dodd were behind the whole economy.

4. Well run states like Texas and Mississippi? I thought their education systems were some of the worst around.

5. There is plenty of corruption to go around in both parties, I’m sure.

6. Republicans can’t say no to big business and the far right. I prefer the Dems way.

7. Nobody ever said anything about putting empathy above the law. Empathy was one item on Obama’s full list of Justice qualifications.

8. The “glorious new prez” laundry list is no big deal or is a list of good things. He was rude and does “double talk”? Who cares? Please cite the double talk. He’s having trouble closing Guantanamo? At least he’s trying! He’s trying to get health care for all as an investment in our nation’s health? GOOD! He’s apologizing to everybody about how bad the US is? I didn’t know he was doing this … who is everybody? … and maybe it’s about time we took responsibility for some of the US shit we’ve been pulling over the past few years and made an effort to repair our sullied name. APOLOGIZE AWAY!

[Bryan_Ekers]

Tell your friend to get a life.

[Lynn_Bodoni]

Well run states like Texas and Mississippi? I thought their education systems were some of the worst around.

We have other problems too, but yeah, we do have education system problems.

[BrightNShiny]

@Some Stupid Glurge

His Homeland Security director has issued a warning to US law enforcement to be on the lookout for people with right wing views, especially returing veterans–absolutely disgraceful!

I guess it is disgraceful if you are a traitor who supports right wing extremists who do things like kill cops.

In any case, the report referenced above was started during the Bush administration, and there’s nothing outlandish in it. Right wing extremist groups do attempt to target military for recruitment.

[furt]

What exactly is the debate?

Should people forward dumb political emails? No, it’s a waste of everyone’s time.

Should people who receive dumb political emails forward them onto message boards? No, it’s a waste of everyone’s time.

[MichaelQReilly]

It’s a pretty sad indictment of these people when they cite Massachusetts and New Jersey as terrible places and Mississippi as a great place. A brief look at any demographic data would reveal that Mass. and NJ are amongst the leaders in quality of life while is Mississippi comparable to some former Eastern Bloc nations.

[BrainGlutton]

@Bearflag70

1. I didn’t know Obama was a Socialist. What does that mean exactly? Socialism makes people poorer? I didn’t know Europe was poorer than it should be.

Europe is mostly social-democratic, not socialist, i.e., the state does not own and manage most of the means of production.

[elucidator]

Why did he leave out the part about forcing Eagle Scouts into gay, Islamic marriages? Odd.

[Bearflag70]

@furt

What exactly is the debate?

The debate is about the merits of the points in the email. I will respond to the email at some point, and I was hoping to learn more about some of these items through a debate.

[Bearflag70]

@Bearflag70

The debate is about the merits of the points in the email. I will respond to the email at some point, and I was hoping to learn more about some of these items through a debate.

For example, he harps on the idea that “socialism” (which, I suppose, to him, means excessive tax rates to support expenditures on social welfare) makes the entire society poorer by taking money out of the system and giving it to the government. He reads The Economist all the time and I don’t know enough about economics to refute that.

The idea that Barney Frank trashed our economy. I don’t know enough about his role in things to refute that. I assume he is referring to the housing crisis and some idea that the Dems failed to control Fannie and Freddie because they wanted to help the poor.

[Piker]

@Bearflag70

The debate is about the merits of the points in the email. I will respond to the email at some point, and I was hoping to learn more about some of these items through a debate.

Well, the first thing I would ask your friend is to provide a cite to support this statement: “Just look at what the Dem party has done to CA. They have driven dozens of businesses out of the state”

I would also ask him how he lays the blame on the Democratic Party for the state’s budget mess, instead of the counter-productive straight-jacket imposed on the legislature, created by the property tax “revolt” in the seventies.

The more I read the list, the more it reads like a recitation of right-wing memes thoroughly debunked by anyone with half a brain. Secret plans for health care? Obama apologizing abroad for US being a terrible country? That old, meaningless canard, “socialism”? Maybe getting into a debate with a five-year-old isn’t the best use of your time.

[Bearflag70]

Perhaps so. I at least want to send one response.

What’s the deal on withdrawing charges on USS Cole masterminds?

[XT]

Since this seems to be a witnessing thread without much debate I’m going to share this little gem I got this morning from a like minded friend to the OP’s:

I HAVE DECIDED TO BECOME A WRITE-IN CANDIDATE.
HERE IS MY PLATFORM:

(1) ‘Press 1 for English’ is immediately banned. English is the official language; speak it or wait at the border until you can.

(2) We will immediately go into a two year isolationist posture to straighten out the country’s attitude. NO imports, no exports. We will use the 'Wal-Mart 's policy, ‘If we ain’t got it, you don’t need it.’

(3) When imports are allowed, there will be a 100% import tax on it.

(4) All retired military personnel will be required to man one of our many observation towers on the southern border (six month tour). They will be under strict orders not to fire on SOUTHBOUND aliens.

(5) Social security will immediately return to its original state. If you didn’t put nuttin in, you ain’t gettin nuttin out. The president nor any other politician will be able to touch it.
(6) Welfare - Checks will be handed out on Fridays at the end of the 40 hour school week and the successful completion of urinalysis and a passing grade.

(7) Professional Athletes–Steroids. The FIRST time you check positive you’re banned for life.

(8) Crime - We will adopt the Turkish method, the first time you steal, you lose your right hand. There is no more life sentence. If convicted of murder, you will be put to death by the same method you chose for your victim; gun, knife, strangulation, etc.

(9) One export will be allowed, Wheat. The world needs to eat. A bushel of wheat will be the exact price of a barrel of oil.

(10) All foreign aid using American taxpayer money will immediately cease, and the saved money will pay off the national debt and ultimately lower taxes. When disasters occur around the world, we’ll ask the American people if they want to donate to a disaster fund, and each citizen can make the decision whether it’s a worthy cause.

(11) The Pledge of Allegiance will be said every day at school and every day in Congress.

(12) The National Anthem will be played at all appropriate ceremonies, sporting events, outings, etc.

Sorry if I stepped on anyone’s toes
GOD BLESS AMERICA .
Bill Cosby

Bat…shit…crazy…

-XT

[Tapioca_Dextrin]

(2) We will immediately go into a two year isolationist posture to straighten out the country’s attitude. NO imports, no exports. We will use the 'Wal-Mart 's policy, ‘If we ain’t got it, you don’t need it.’

I thought Wally World’s policy was “If it ain’t made in China, we don’t stock it”

[elucidator]

Bill Cosby?

[Piker]

“The National Anthem will be played at all appropriate ceremonies, sporting events, outings, etc.”

I’m glad our priorities are in the right place.

I remember reading a Matt Yglesias post about why Republicans are so down in opinion polls right now: it’s not that people are rejecting their policy solutions to national problems, but that the public is rejecting what the Republicans see as problems in the first place. Right now, it seems as if the only big national problem requiring attention, for Republicans, is high taxes. For this guy, it’s that the national anthem is not played often enough. That’s just a mindset I’ll never understand.

(And don’t get me started on the national anthem. I know this will never be a popular position, but why us Americans demand a demonstration of national fealty before sporting events is beyond me. Gives me extra time to grab a beer before D.C. United kicks off, though, so it’s not all bad)

-Piker

[Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew]

@elucidator

Bill Cosby?

Not really.

[BrainGlutton]

@Bearflag70

For example, he harps on the idea that “socialism” (which, I suppose, to him, means excessive tax rates to support expenditures on social welfare) makes the entire society poorer by taking money out of the system and giving it to the government. He reads The Economist all the time and I don’t know enough about economics to refute that.

One should not need a degree in economics to understand that money thus taken out of the private-sector economy with the one hand is immediately put back in with the other. What do you think people do with their welfare checks?

[Bearflag70]

Sounds like you have every reason to go DTS; you disagree with the Dems and you don’t like what the GOP has become.

I find your points irrelevant, misguided, and some alleged negative points I believe are actually positive.

IRRELEVANT

The cliché that alleged “socialists” over age 40 have no brain. That amounts to name calling and nothing more.

Abbas phone call

Rude to British PM – Seriously, is this even an issue? He was rude to someone? Childish argument.

Al Arabia interview – So he wants to help Islamic relations. Is that so bad?

Serpent with a forked tongue? Double talk? Please cite evidence of double talk beyond just “listen closely and you’ll see … and if you don’t hear it, then you’re obviously not listening hard enough or you are choosing to ignore it”
MISGUIDED

Barney Frank almost single handedly trashed the entire US economy, especially when the GOP held the reins of power. I don’t buy it.

Dems have driven dozens of business out of the state. My understanding is that nobody has ever accurately tracked the net gain or loss of the number of California businesses.

Dems cow-tow to unions. That’s a matter for debate, but I’d rather support a party that supports unions over one that cow-tows to big business, the rich, the religious right, and the military industrial complex

Massachusetts is backward and Mississippi is excellent? I’ll take the Mass. standard of living, education system, justice system, same-sex-marriage supporting, etc. over the Mississippi way of life any day. Mississippi has horrible schools, low standard of living, horrible race relations, anti-choice, anti-SSM, and tries to impose Christianity in public schools and otherwise as a matter of law. No thanks.

My understanding is that California’s budget woes are tied to the US economy as a whole and to ballot box budgeting, not the Dems.

Both parties have corruption. Now what?

Nowhere did Obama state empathy would supersede the rule of law. Empathy was but one item on a lengthy laundry list of qualifications for a Justice. This blatant distortion of the facts ruins your credibility overall. Did you get this junk argument from Rush Limbaugh? Please read something besides the OC Register now and then.

Closing Guantanamo – Hey, at least he’s TRYING to close it and do the right thing

USS Cole charges – I don’t know, but maybe there wasn’t enough evidence to support the charges. That’s what happens in America when the evidence doesn’t support the charges.

Europe is not Socialist in that the government does not own, manage, and control most of the means of production

My limited understanding of the report regarding being on the lookout for extreme right wing returning veterans is that it was started during the Bush Administration and is designed to prevent harm from veterans who may have been recruited by extremists who could kill cops and other such harm. It’s not designed to target run of the mill Republicans and conservatives.

He is spending to fix all the stunts the GOP and Wall Street have pulled over the past 8 years. Blame them for this mess.

Teachers unions have not killed education

GM has done itself in by failing to stay competitive. Blame GM and Wall Street, not the Dems.
POSITIVE THINGS YOU LIST AS NEGATIVE

Ordered CIA interrogation centers closed – Why is that bad? Better to close them than to have them thwarting Geneva Convention

Public investment in American health care is a good thing

Apologizing for US misdeeds is bad? I think it’s good. The US pulled a lot of crap over the past 8 years or more that deserves an apology to the world (e.g., the entire Iraq War and related torture). The US has done a lot of good and plenty of bad over the course of history. To suggest America is flawless is to put America on a pedestal where it does not belong (e.g., Trail of Tears, Japanese internment camps, McCarthyism, empowering the Taliban, slavery, Jim Crow, attempted imperialism, etc., etc., etc.). It’s about time we owned up to some of our mistakes.

BACK TO WORK

[Wheelz]

@Bearflag70

Perhaps so. I at least want to send one response.

Ehhh… why bother?

If you ask the sender for cites, you’re unlikely to get any.
If you respond with a well-thought and researched reply, you’ve done more work than the sender has (and more than the original e-mail deserves, IMO).
If you respond in kind, say with a left-wing rant about how awful George W. Bush was, nothing really gets accomplished except more people getting upset.

The sender likely knows you wouldn’t agree with this message and is trying to get a rise out of you. Why take the bait? It may be wishful thinking, but if we all just ignore e-mails like this one there may be fewer of them in the future…

(Who am I kidding? That ain’t gonna happen.)