A few weeks ago we were practising some section attacks with my UOTC. All the usual stuff, the scenario was some terrorists were holding positions along the coastline and we had to engage and neutralise the threat.
Often we’d just overpower them and they’d give up, with the normal procedures of capturing them.
When we’d ‘killed’ one or more of the targets, we would go and clear their position. Any bodies had to be checked for weapons/explosives. Apparently a common ‘trick’ of any dying insurgents is to place a pinless grenade under their chest as they die.
We’re trained to dive onto the body while someone keeps their rifle pointed at a distance, and flip the body, keeping it between you and any potential explosives.
My question is this, though; what protection would a body offer you from an incendiary device at close range? Sure, you’d get very messy and hurt, but would it save your life?
Surely it would be a fragmentation weapon, rather than an incendiary?
Against the threat of flying shrapnel, a large meatbag would offer quite not inconsiderable protection, I would think, however, In my completely non-military opinion, the method you’re describing still seems to expose you to unnecessarily high risks; what would be the harm in turning the body using a rope (fixed while the rifle was used as a precaution)?
I would think so. The shrapnel from a grenade is going to lose most or all of its energy in the bad guy’s body. You would still have to worry about a concussion from the blast wave.
Sorry, mixup of terms there. It’s not necessarily a grenade you’re looking for, just something that might kill you if you just flip em over without care.
Turning the body with a rope would be fantastic, but certainly in the scenarios I’ve been in, this is done whilst under fire. The person checking for explosives is either squatting or prone, and this is all done with heads below the level which you get spotted at. Time is obviously a big factor. The sooner you can get into their position, check it and get out, the sooner you can get onto the next one which gives them less time to plan something even more dastardly.
Sure, but that being the case, I would have thought risking the loss or incapacitation of a team member is highly undesirable. A rope with a grappling iron (OK, you might not be carrying one of these, but how about one of those folding shovels tied to a rope?) should be quite quick to hook under a shoulder and turn the body at a safe distance.
Apparently it’s just too time-consuming/dangerous to do it any other way, and if an PSI sees you clearing a body any other way, then you’re in trouble.
It’s the same premise. University Officer’s Training Corps. I’m part of Glasgow & Strathclyde UOTC.
From what I can tell, the OTC is generally a little more hands-on than the ROTC, but I may be wrong. The GSUOTC in particular (without bias here) is probably the best OTC in the UK for actually ‘doing’ things. We have a really big budget, and get to do aerial insertions, para training and the like. I still find it hard to believe that I get paid for my extra-curricular club.
Other OTCs around the UK are good, but they tend to be larger and there’s just no way they can do as much with every O/Cdt. So they just play sports.
PMNIW, have you had some experience throwing grenades? You will note that they do not resemble much grenades in the movies. There is no fireball (which I gather is where you got “incendiary”), it is really just a puff of smoke, what kills people are the fragments, and the body of the enemy will offer considerable protection, twice so if he is also wearing, say, a chest rig with kalashnikov magazines, although I suppose if the enemy has enough time to booby trap the corpse, then he would also take these with him as he leaves. Also note that a grenade exploding on the ground will direct most of its fragments up, at an angle to the ground, so being already prone will also dramatically increase your level of protection.
We are taught:
One man cover the corpse (inc ase he springs back to life) and the other jumps on his back
The roller lifts the corpse slightly, allowing the covering man to observe underneath.
If a grenade is observes, the coverer yells “grenade” and then runs like a motherfuck to cover.
If the grenade is still under the corpse, the roller drops the corpse back onto the grenade and rolls away (quickly). If the grenade rolls out from under the corpse, the roller rolls the corpse up and shields himself from the blast with it.
That’s the same we’re taught, just didn’t want to go into depth above because the question was more about the aftermath!
I’ve seen grenades close up (not too close), and I know what they do, but obviously not in enough depth to gauge whether a body will absorb what it blows out! I hope I dont have to find out for real.
Well, it’s about the best way to deal with such a situation as can be reasonably expected under difficult circumstances. Having observed the effects of grenades, and listened to the experiences of people who have had grenades go off 5 feet away from them in training accidents, I have every confidence in the drill. You may not get away completely unscathed, but in once piece, yes. So I wouldn’t start doubting the word of your instructors untill you gain some practical experience in the matter.
I have every faith in my instructors, they’ve been there and done this. I’m a student playing soldiers, but I’ll be doing it for real (or telling people to do it) one day.
The time to doubting what they say comes for the mess. Lets not go there though.
He might not be dead, just waiting till your back’s turned. Or he might have something useful on his person, like a radio/plan detailing the enemy’s movements. It’s bad drills to assume he’s useless/harmless because he’s still.
Some of the dopers who know what they’re talking about might want to jump in here though and come up with better reasons.
The idea, you see, is that you have this fellow that you just killed, and he may be booby trapped with an unpinned grenade underneath him. SOP is that once the area is secure, you search the bodies for intel, equipment, radios (I suppose he won’t be needing his Rolex or wallet either, not that I am condoning the looting of corpses or anything) and whatnot. So naturally, if he’s lying there, you first search the exposed side, and then turn him over and search the underside. Of course, you won’t be under fire right at that moment, but still, you want to do this in an expedious and safe manner, before the enemy organizes a counter attack or starts dropping mortar shells on the position that they’ve already ranged in, and this just happens to be a good balance between safety and speed. If you happen to have a good length of rope handy, and the situation is fairly stable, it might be a good idea to use that instead, but then, you’d have to find cover, clear the area, and generally make a bigger fuss than just turning him over. Of course, the situation will dictate you actions.
I would think that the proper procedure would be to disable his weapon and move on. Others can check the body for intel safely when the area is secure.
They were supposed to have come aboard after their boat ran into trouble nearby. We had no idea how many of them there were, or what weapons they had.
We had originally been sent on an observe and gather intel mission until we’d recieved orders to engage. Would that be sensible to collect anything availiable? Or is it a waste of time?
