I AM PERFECTLY AWARE THAT HAMAS DID NOT CARRY OUT 9-11, THANK YOU. Why do you insist that if I mention 9-11 as an example, that must mean I think Hamas performed 9-11? I first mentioned 9-11 in my OP. Did I say it was done by Hamas? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! ME **NO **SAY THAT!!!
What I did was that I used 9-11 in my OP as an example. Here this Imam is sitting in New York a short distance from the site of the biggest Muslim terrorist act in history, and calmly saying that terrorism is something “too complex” for him to say what is or is not terrorism. What I was saying was that he doesn’t need to look very far to see a clear example of real, no-kidding, genuine terrorism.
Why do you think most Mulsims that hate America hate us? Our freedom? Surely you don’t think that.
I’m not saying our foreign policy is wrong, I’m saying that it does piss off a lot of people. The analogy to reconstruction-era blacks is without merit. Blacks (who in your poorly made analogy represent America) weren’t the ones in power and weren’t pushing around the lynchers (in your analogy represented by the Muslim world [subtle, by the way :D]).
Do you think that America’s foreign policy in the middle east over the last century could be seen as a reason to get angry by poor, uneducated people?
BTW, the Muslim answer to “has he stopped beating his wife” is that Surah 4, verse 34 does not really refer to beating physically, or maybe it refers to beating but not too hard and not on the face, or maybe a ritual beating with a very small branch, and anyway, you do not speak Arabic so you can’t really judge what it says, so shut up and submit to Islam.
You seem to think that Hamas are the same people who performed 9-11. You certainly aren’t trying very hard to show how informed you are about this topic.
Has Hamas ever flown a plane into a skyscraper? If 9-11 is an example of According to Hoyle terrorism, what has Hamas done that is very similar?
That is a very wide “they”, to the point that it’s a false statement. The desire to be the religion that everyone follows is quite common among religions, and the idea that coercion is a way to get there is by no means universal among Muslims. Not even close.
There are lots of things to criticize Islam for… but this is just silly.
What in the world makes you think that a significant number of people outside the US buy that? America has typically acted against freedom, against separation of church and state, against the rights of women (even to the extent of often allying with conservative Muslims on the matter), and on and on. We are hated as Christian Crusaders, mass murderers and the supporters of puppet dictators; not as the champion of truth and justice. The world knows that when America says “democracy and freedom” what it actually means is “mass slaughter until you submit”.
Lets pretend he really is some rabid freedom hating terrorist loving radical jihadist (which I don’t believe for a second).
SO WHAT? Last I checked we still have freedom of religion and freedom of speech. If anyone is allowed to build a church at that spot, then he is allowed to as well no matter what religion he belongs to. If he wants to preach that America is the devil and we all deserve to be blown up and bin laden is the best guy in the whole world well that’s his right as an American.
If you don’t like that, too goddamn bad. Maybe you could move to some great country that suppresses those rights - I hear North Korea is pretty nice this time of year.
The simplest and most likely answer is that he is afraid that if he makes even the most curt and reasonable political argument, various news outlets would twist his words and take his words out of context in order to make it look like he’s a crazy guy. These fears are clearly quite well-founded, seeing as that is what you are doing right now.
We were talking about general anti-Americanism. Even someone as educated as Valteron seems to be able to irrationally dislike a group of people for trumped up reasons.
Reread his post. If you weren’t ideologically pre-disposed to want to side with Valteron, you might realize that he really thinks our foreign policy isn’t why we’re hated. It’s honestly sad to think that someone has so strongly internalized the mindless jingoism of the last administration.
It’s been a long time since I looked into this, but I think you’re oversimplifying here. What I remember is that some of them were educated and came from middle class backgrounds, including Mohammed Atta and other guys who flew the planes. The muscle guys were not educated and not as well-off.
No, he doesn’t. He doesn’t say that terrorism is too complex to say anything about it whatsoever. Saying something is complex does not mean that there are zero known or agreed upon things to it.
I’ve already made this argument to you upthread - if you reject it, or disagree, i’d be very interested in hearing your response.
Wait, you want to tell him he can’t practise his religion because America is a free country which separates church and state and considers all religions equal?
