Guitar-buying advice, Part 2

Cafe Society
1

I started a thread several years ago, asking for guitar-buying advice. This probably goes all the way back to 2004, and several Dopers chimed in, particularly the great WordMan. Well, due to several factors, I never bought the guitar, particularly because I never felt I had enough discretionary income to justify it. But now, I’m playing with the idea again.

We all pretty much concluded I wanted a Fender Telecaster for its versatility. I love the twangy, reverb-drenched sound in surf music, rockabilly, “spy jazz” (think of Portishead’s trip-hop or John Barry’s James Bond theme), and spaghetti western music. I love lounge music and swing, but I also like indie rock (think of Rilo Kiley, Decemberists, Shins, New Pornographers, etc.) and a bit of harder-edged “garage rock,” like the Raveonettes or the White Stripes. I also have background as a sax player in a ska band, so it would be nice to get the nice clean tone ska guitarists get from their simple upstrokes. Everyone concluded that for my interests and purposes, a Telecaster would be my best bet.

Now, here’s where the frugal side of me comes in. Could I get away with a cheaper Squier Telecaster? For what it’s worth, I can noodle around a little, but I’d basically be learning to play guitar from scratch, probably from books and videos and playing along with songs I like. I’ve tried learning guitar and taking lessons in the past, but due to poor instructors and my own disinterest and frustration with guitars that didn’t sound or feel good, I never stuck with it. (Luckily, it gave me a chance to become a good sax player!) I figure if I get a guitar that feels RIGHT in my hands, and gives me sounds I like, I’ll be more likely to stick with it, but I can’t break the bank either.

Oh, I would also need an amp. Nothing huge, nothing super-loud, but ideally something that can help me get that twangy sound I love so much. I’d love to play in a band again one day, but I’m almost 30, almost done with grad school, and looking desperately for my first full-time job in my second career, so I’m not wildly optimistic about that happening. If I could just practice, get adept at playing the music I like, and eventually start writing and recording my own material, I’d be more than content. So that’s why I don’t need or want a giant pro-quality stack or anything crazy like that.

Suggestions? Advice? I know, I know, I’m not quitting my day job any time soon.

2

Look at the Epiphone by Gibson. They make a nice Strat–style with a slim neck, and most music stores have package deals. You can use headphones untill you can afford an amp.

3

Ah, here’s the link to my original OP from late 2003, where I got all that great advice:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220388

I’ve pretty much reiterated everything I said back then, except I’m a lot more into Tom Waits now, and especially the guitar work by Marc Ribot on a lot of his albums. I was just hoping I could get away with a cheaper Squier Telecaster, mostly.

4

It’s your call. It won’t really matter while you’re learning, but after you get acclimated to the guitar, you might notice that it’s not quite like you’d love it… the action could be off, the sound could be iffy, anything. With guitars, you get what you pay for.

I say, if you are wanting a Telecaster, go ahead and get the full blown deal. It’s more expensive, but in the long run will be better sounding.

5

I’d be more inclined to recommend the Mexican Tele rather than the Squier, but some of the Squier’s are okay. The electronics can be upgraded later if you need to but the neck is important. Do you you have any decent stores handy? See if you can go with a friend who plays a little and try some out. If you find a Squier that plays well and sounds okay go for it, but at least check out the Mexican Tele’s and do a playing comparison for feel and sound quality.

There are several cool Amp’s

Fender’s GDec Jr is a cool amp with some built in rhythm patterns that you can play along with.

The Fender Champ
is a cool amp for some of the music you mentioned.

The fender 15R Also a decent practice amp.

Some multi effects units like this has a headphone jack and lots of cool sounds.

For portability the Roland micro cube is very cool with nice built in effects.

The Roland 15X is not quite as portable but small enough with good effects.

These are practice amps are good for learning but not powerful enough to jam with friends much, unless of course they have practice amps too.

hope that helps :slight_smile:

6

Thank you! I have a Guitar Center, a Sam Ash, and two smaller music stores nearby, but they’re all kind of intimidating since I’m not much of a guitarist. I will check them out soon enough, though.

7

If you’re near that many stores, there will be a fair market in used guitars around as well. After you’ve played a few and got a feel for what you like, and don’t, consider a used Tele. If you decide to get rid of it, you’ll almost certainly be able to sell it for whatever you paid, so your net will be minimal. If you decide to keep it, you’ll be happy.

Cost of turnover, like going from a cheap copy to the real thing, will be much more expensive.

8

I wish this user wasn’t banned because I’d like to know what the heck he’s talking about. I’m not aware of any Strat-style Epiphone guitar - the closest thing would be the SG, and that’s still nothing like a Strat. And besides, the OP said he wanted a Telecaster.

9

I thought Epiphones were low-end/entry-level Gibsons, just like Squiers are low-end/entry-level Fenders, so I was a little confused too. But whether I spring for it or not, I’m 99% sure I’ll get a Tele if I do.

10

It would be a bit pointless re-stating what we all said in the old thread, so what can I add…

Guitars vary a lot in quality, overall obviously you get what you pay for but an individual guitar can be exceptionally good or bad regardless of its price. If you don’t have much/any experience of playing different guitars then you are not really be going to be able to tell what you’ve got your hands on. Do you have a friend who knows guitars you can take with you to judge?

To get the sounds you want you’ll need an amp (a small 15Watt valve amp would be your best bet) with reverb and tremelo and maybe an echo/delay pedal for the Rockabilly you mentioned in the old thread.

As a begginer just a few lessons will speed up the learning process a lot and may stop you starting out with bad habits.

Passing shot. There are a lot of things you can change/adjust on an guitar to make it play or sound better (for starters - truss rod tension, nut slots, fret-levels, and bridge height) a cheap guitar (any new guitar actually) will almost certainly need some or all of these things adjusted. Getting a pro to set up a cheap instrument is a bit silly, learn how to do this stuff for yourself if you can.

11

I have a Squier (I recently re-took up guitar) and bought it for the same reasons that you stated:

  1. I just wanted a “starter” guitar that wasn’t expensive
  2. I didn’t want to shell out $400+ on a Strat/Tele, only to find in a couple of weeks/months that my new hobby wasn’t going to cut it
  3. I don’t know jack about guitars and didn’t want to test the used market

It’s… OK. My biggest problem is fret buzz - there are some places on the neck where the strings will buzz on other frets closer to the pickups. I’m not a good guitar player, but I’m not as bad as my guitar makes me sound (Yeah, I know: “The bad carpenter always blames his tools.” But still.) For some reason, harmonics are harder to do on this guitar than on my previous guitar (some no-name strat style guitar bought in the mid-80s). I’ve also noodled around with “real” Strats and have noticed on the Strats the strings are a bit further apart than on the Squier - you really have to be accurate on finger placement on a Squier so that you won’t deaden other strings (Not too sure if this is the worse problem to have as it helps you focus on proper fingering, but some leeway would be nice as I don’t have the longest fingers in the history of mankind and arching them is a bit difficult at times.)

But, again, I bought the Squier knowing that if I were to continue I would eventually have to upgrade. “Buy cheap, then buy again” and all that.

12

Did you try raising the action at the bridge?

13

Stop speaking Greek! :wink:

Uh… no, I didn’t. :o

14

Another vote for buying the real thing.

You rarely regret paying more for quality, but you nearly always regret not having quality.

15

See here. Your bridge probably looks like the top picture. Each element (“saddle”) of the bridge can be raised or lowered using a small allen wrench. If the bridge saddles are adjusted too low, you can get fret buzz, particulary on frets near the pickups.

If you want to adjust it yourself, use that small allen wrench on each saddle, and raise both screws per string a very small amount (say, a half turn), then test that string. Keep track of how many turns you complete, in case you decide you’re making things worse, so you can just set it all back the way it was. Do not adjust the large screw on each saddle that faces the bottom of the guitar

You will mess with your intonation doing this, but this sounds like the least of your trouble right now.

16

Also, whoever sold you that guitar should have set it up all nice for you. Don’t buy anything from them again, or go back and bitch – this is why brick and mortar instrument shops even exist.

17

There are a few things that will cause this.

  1. What squeegee said, the action is too low, raise the bridge pieces.

  2. Not enough relief (bend) in the neck. Sight down the neck or hold the g string against the first and last fret. It shouldn’t be dead straight, it should have a (very) slight bend in the direction of the strings. If there’s no bend or it’s actually convex you need to slacken off the trussrod a tad. Do this by a quarter turn at a time, some guitars are very sensitive to this. But don’t be chicken, despite what some books say it is quite hard to permanently damage a guitar this way.

  3. Uneven frets. Ideally they should all be the same height. Find a good straight edge (I use a metal ruler) and lay it longwise down the frets, if there is any point where it rocks then there is a high fret which needs filing down.

On preview, yes the shop should set up their guitars but in my experience they don’t. In any case the ideal setup depends on what you want to play. Most guitars are going to be fitted with 009s, if someone like WordMan takes one of those home and puts on a set of 012s then the neck will look like a banana.

Learn to set up your own guitars, it’s fun.

And when you’ve made all the possible mistakes on a cheap/duff guitar set it up for bottleneck and go and buy a good one.

18

Hey Lou!

I’ve been in meetings since yesterday and just saw this thread. A few things have changed in my guitar life - namely, I built my own Telecaster out of after-market parts, and have lived with it for about a year now. I love it and remain convinced that it is the guitar for you based on what you have described.

All the advice in this current thread is good - buying quality matters, so if you can afford a US-made Tele, you should consider it. After that you should consider a Made in Mexico (MIM) Tele - that’s their next quality level down. I would avoid a Squire - some can be good, but you have to play a LOT more of them to find that diamond in the rough. I have been pleasantly surprised at the number of good-to-great MIM Tele’s I have tried, so if you bring a friend along who knows how to check out guitars, they likelihood that they’ll find a MIM worth buying is higher - plan on playing a couple of dozen guitars at Sam Ash AND Guitar Center to find 1 - 3 that are worth considering. And MIM’s go for about $450, which is a great deal.

As for amps - honestly, just get something with a 12" speaker that has decent clean tones. Tube amps are by far the best, but there are few tube amps worth getting in a starting-out price range (Epiphone makes a small tube amp for dirt cheap - lots of gearheads are buying them just to soup them up and modify them - but they are best-suited to crunchy, distortion tones - not what you are looking for). Digital-modeling amps - by Line 6 and Behringer, etc., and Fender, too - are likely fine - I hate them, but I am a primadonna tone snob. Starting out, they are a decent option - if you get bit by the bug, you can upgrade later. :slight_smile:

All for now - WordMan

PS: Actually, no, not all for now: you say “I’m 30 and will likely not be in a band” - not so! I am in the best band I have ever been in my life in my 40’s and having a great time - especially because we gig when it’s fun and don’t have to sweat the money stuff so much!

19

Or do the inbetween thing – get an outboard modeler to plug into amp that can do a clean tone. I lurve my POD 2.0, and wish I’d had it when I was a teenager and too poor for good amps. Hell, I’m not poor now, and its great fun and a pocket full of Tone.

20

I have a Squire also, and the same problem. The source (in my case) are some uneven level frets, I’ve just been too lazy to pay someone to file them properly…figured I’d just buy a better guitar at that point if I’m going to shell out money. I raised the problem strings at the bridge, which created the side-effect of some strings being significantly higher than others which makes picking less fluid than I’d like (or I just suck anyway :slight_smile: ). A little sloppiness in my picking is far less annoying than the fret buzz, so that’s what I live with.

Otherwise, it is a good guitar with a tone that I like, so it’s worth the money for the venue that I play–the living room couch.