So my Vintage White Fender Telecaster arrived yesterday. I don’t have an amp yet, so I tuned it as well as I could to my classical guitar.
Anyway, I was wondering about the differences between Telecasters made in the U.S., Mexico, and Japan. Different woods? But aren’t American ones made with different woods? (Ash, alder?) Different sounds? Different electronics?
And what about ‘Squire by Fender’? These are from Indonesia, right? Why are they so cheap?
The responses to this recent thread, particularly Wordman’s contributions, might clear up some of your questions. At least I hope so.
And congrats on the new Tele! Truly one of the all-time great guitar designs. Who’d have dreamed, in 1950, that Leo Fender’s unorthodox plank would still be craved by guitarists almost 60 years after it’s debut? Well, besides Leo, I mean. 
Well, I hope so, too! I am sure if you have other questions, Johnny L.A., the crack team of SDMB Guitar Geeks will help however we all can…what do you think of the guitar in terms of its basic playability - we know it looks the right way, since you really sought that color out, right?
I gather the relative differences between them change. At the time I bought my Japanese Tele (mid-late 1990s) the guitar shop guy reckoned they were a better product than the more expensive American ones. I believe that has changed since though.
Heh. Now I’m more confused! 
I’ve just gotten up, and am struggling for coherency. But what I got from the other thread is ‘It depends.’ When my friend bought his Fender he specifically wanted an American one, since at the time he assumed that they would only be made in Japan after that. Reading the other thread I see that some Japanese models were/are superior to American ones. And the Mexican-made Baja can be great, and some American-made ones are not so great.
It was mentioned that the wood used can make a huge difference. I understand of course that different woods have different densities and whatnot, and that would affect tone. But which woods are ‘better’ and which should be ‘avoided’?
As I said in another thread I can strum a tune. I took a Beginning Folk Guitar class 20 years ago. We barely touched on picking. I can do a basic blues chord progression. Single notes… not so much. Not long after the class I picked up a book of New Wave Hits, and could strum the ones I liked. So I seriously doubt I could tell the difference between a good guitar and a poorer one.
But I did have a Hondo Les Paul copy my friend sold me when he got his Fender. The one thing I remember about that guitar was that it was impossible to keep it in tune. It would sound good (to me) for five or ten minutes, but then I’d have to tune it again. I never had that problem with the Fender or my Takamine. Since I think it’s unlikely that the wood would ‘warp’ over the course of a few minutes, I assume the problem was the hardware. As inexperienced as I am, I can say ‘This is a bad guitar.’
Then I see the confusing array of Fender Telecasters, made in at least three different countries. Aiyiyi.
As I said, playability is not something I can judge at this point. Also, I don’t have an amp yet. But playing with it I immediately remembered how narrow the neck is compared to my classical. That’s going to take some practice. I’d like to learn how to play some blues/rock, and I think the narrow neck may help as sometimes the classical’s neck makes me reach a bit. Just playing with it unamplified, the E-string buzzes a bit. The one I had from my friend did the same thing, and the Hondo did too. I’m sure it’s me.
As far as the looks, it looks great! It’s exactly what I wanted. I worry that my friend might think I’m ‘copying’ him, but Vintage White is just the best colour. It’s sort of unpretentious and doesn’t call attention to itself like red or blue or metallic, it’s not ‘old’-looking like Sunburst, and it’s more pleasing to me that white or black.
I found a 15w Fender amp with reverb on Amazon for $99. I’ll go to the music store today to get a couple of cords and some picks. I have my Boss TU-12 tuner from the '80s.
I might get another guitar eventually. I have friends who play, and maybe I can get them to give me some impromptu lessons if I have a spare lying around. I won’t get another American Fender since they’re expensive; but if I come across a less expensive Mexican-made one or a Japanese one in a pawn shop or someplace I’ll consider it. Or a Squier (corrected spelling), if they’re not like the Hondo I had and will stay in tune. Or maybe an Epiphone or some other beginner’s guitar.
Given how you describe where you are at in your guitar journey, this sounds like a great guitar for you. Geeking out over various woods and densities and the like is a complete waste of time most of the time.
And yeah, a standard-width neck is better for rock and blues vs. a wide-necked classical. You can play rock and blues with your thumb on the back of the neck - many, many folks do - but if you like to hang your thumb over the top of the neck, a standard-width neck is essential.
One point regarding your buzzing E - yes, you may be strumming too hard or no fingering cleanly or something that leads to a bit of buzz. But make sure your guitar is properly set up - that is my mantra. Make sure that the neck is not bowed, the action (distance between strings and fingerboard) is comfortable and the intonation is correct (i.e., the little bridge saddles set correctly). It typically costs $40 - $70 for a guitar set up and it is usually well worth it, especially if the guitar was shipped in the mail…
Best of luck!
Oh, I’m not geeking. Just confused. What makes a Telecaster from one country ‘better’ than one from another country? Why is a Squier so much cheaper? Obviously woods are priced differently. (‘Yes, it’s made of MDF. But it’s cheap!’) But does the difference in the prices of ash, alder, basswood, or whatever account for hundreds of dollars of difference? Or the difference in prices of electronics? Or is it, as was said in the other thread, ‘the Harley factor’? Labour costs? That’s what’s confusing me. You have two chunks of wood, some bent metal, some wires, and a bit of paint.
This video shows a guy playing a guitar made from a car muffler. These kids (NPR story I heard Thursday - video link on page) made their own muffler guitars. They sound pretty good to me.
Thanks. That’s good to know!
Basically all of the above. And for Fender-style guitars, which were designed for mass-produce-ability by the brilliantly inventive Leo Fender, it can feel even more confusing - like, what, they bolt the necks on with gold screws or something? I built my main Tele from top quality parts I bought based on my specific needs - so now I have $800 or so in the guitar and I would stack it against a multi-thousand dollar Custom Shop any day.
A decently-produced inexpensive Fender-style guitar is a solid foundation for a guitar - note that I said decently produced - the Squires I have played over the past few years do NOT qualify. And this assumes you want a Fender-style vs. a set neck Gibson style, which have more manual steps. But because we are geeks, we all look for ways to get that extra…whatever…mojo, tone, feel - whatever - and the cult of different players (“did you know Jimi Hendrix played CBS Strats because he thought the extra mass in the updated, larger CBS headstock gave him a better tone?” Uh, no…). So some of us - and I have been guilty of this - will pay extra bucks for stuff that we can’t really hear makes a difference.
Now - having said that, some stuff DOES matter. And there are long, flaming debates on guitar pages where players offer their POV about what matters more - the wood, the neck, the pickups, the electronics. I would say this - if one gets to a point that they can really pick out the tonal characteristics they want and figure out what to swap out to achieve that tone - cool. But for your average “dude, I just wanna rock out” kind of player then a well set-up guitar of the appropriate type given the type of “rocking out” they want to do, coupled with a solid amp, is more than enough.
In other words, to me, geeking out about guitars and paying big bux for subtle differences is an indulgent hobby - and you know what, I have a ton of fun with it - but the vast majority of players can get by with a far more inexpensive tool…
To answer your question about setting prices - in the lower realms - e.g., up to about $1000 - $1200 the prices vary because of the quality of the parts, the number of steps where a person actually checks the quality of the work and the overall tolerances for fit and finish that require additional attention. Past about $1200 or so, we are getting into Harley territory. You are paying for a specific builder to build the guitar (boutique or Custom Shop at a major brand) special parts, arcane materials - or just a luxury tax. When Gibson has Tom Murphy take a razor blade to the finish of a Historic '59 Les Paul Reissue so it has the appearance of crazing that a true vintage instrument has - and charges $5000 more vs. a non-relic’d version - then you know you are in a different world…
Comments from the luthier’s peanut gallery regarding solid bodies.
Any guitar that has the fret slots spaced properly and a decent bridge can be set up to match any action or playing style you like, given skill of the adjustor, rapport with the musician and budgetary restraints.
That means a cheapo can equal any custom (insert marque here) if the attendant factors are addressed. It is fair to infer, but not assume, that higher priced guitars meet such criteria on a general level off the line.
To stay in tune a guitar needs good tuners and broken in strings. Cheaply made tuners (which are slowly disappearing ) suffer backlash that better machined products don’t. Early era Klusons (standard issue on many American axes) don’t hold a candle to run of the mill Gotohs.
Apart from some woods being unsuitable for guitar fretboards or necks due to instability or softness, Fender is testimony to a variety of woods and any sawn orientation being used with no discernable difference, although as WordMan notes, the arguments go on. As a reference point, tell me which Strat Hendrix uses on which cut, or in live performance, knowing that he played many versions, some re-assembled from broken axes, including the Tele neck Strat. Bonus points for the Flying V.
Having worked on and being the owner of several Strats, apart from maple being a consistent neck wood, bodies were made from a variety of species. So I don’t give wood as much credit for tone as pickups, for solid bodies.
Disregarding self interest, a visit with a luthier should quickly eliminate any buzzing or action problems you might experience and is really to your benefit in the life of your new guitar.
Thanks for the info, WordMan.
OK, you said you think my Fender is a great guitar for my purposes – and I agree. Let me ask you this though: What do you think of it generally? It was made in 1993, and it looks brand new. Not even the tiniest scratch that I can see. No gunk in the frets. It may have been made last week, by its appearance. It cost less than a new American-made Fender, including shipping and a Fender gig bag. (Speaking of shipping, it was very well packed, and the strings were loosened.) Did I do OK?
I went to a couple of pawn shops today on my way to the music shop. There was a Squier at one of them that looked similar to my Fender, but it was more of a cream colour, for $150. I found another one that looks like mine (Vintage White) but with a light neck instead of the rosewood for about the same price. I know you’ve said you don’t like Squiers, but that seems like a reasonable price. I’d like to have a spare guitar around in case one of my playing friends comes by and wants to teach me something. Are they really that bad? Or what about a used Epi Les Paul copy? Amazon has one for $374 (MSRP $715). The local music shop has a Mexican Fender for $420. (There’s a Guitar Center near work, which I haven’t been to yet. They’d no doubt have better prices than a locally-owned shop.) Only I don’t want to spend a lot on a spare guitar.
Anyway, I’ve got my cords and picks and I’ve ordered a Fender Frontman 15R Amp w/Reverb. I also picked up Mel Bay’s First Lessons: Blues Guitar w/CD.
Remind me - where was the guitar made? U.S. or Japan? If U.S. you got a fine deal; if Japan you probably got a very good. I can never remember what years are the especially good ones for Japanese-made Fenders but for some reason think that the early 90’s was a good period; “vintage” Japanese years command a premium vs. years/eras that are considered shoddy. From the sound of it, you did very well and should be happy - congrats. I happen to swear by Tele’s (and Les Pauls with P-90 soapbar pickups) so you will hear no complaints from me about your choices.
Regarding a second guitar, you might consider the Epi LP. Some can be real keepers - I told a story about coming across a $99 Epi LP Jr. that rocked. The think I like about it is that it would be different for you. Getting a Tele Squire is very iffy - you can find one, but need to go through dozens and really trust your judgment (yes, they are that varied) - and you end up with no variety. Although as a rule I am not a big PRS fan (whole 'nother story) I have been very impressed with their inexpensive Korean-made SE guitars - the craftsmanship can be excellent and the ones with P-90 soapbars can sound great.
**Carson O’Genic ** you said:
That is one of the great raging debates in guitar circles - I disagree with you, but readily admit that plenty of other materials are fine for solid / semi-solid guitars, like acrylic, a muffler, what have you. But some body materials are great and some stink - so acrylic can sound great, and some woods can stink. A truly nice chunk of wood can make the whole difference in a guitar’s tone - now whether it is “old growth wood,” an exotic wood, one-piece or in parts or a sandwich of multiple woods, neck-thru construction - all have been shown to result in great-sounding guitars - to me the common theme is that the resulting guitar/pickup/amp “system” seems to work together - that’s what ultimately matters to my hands and ears…
U.S.-made.
I don’t have much technical expertise to add here, a lot of it was covered here or in the other thread. I do recall from my guitar shopping experience (thread here) that the Far East vs MIM vs American Teles could feel/play vastly different from each other. It wasn’t any one thing I could point at, and I’m really not sure exactly what was different between them when I held them in my hands, but the difference was very clear to me.
I played probably about a dozen Teles over a couple weeks’ time. The several Far East guitars I tried were uniformly mediocre – the tone felt dead, the neck felt flat and lifeless, the intonation seemed off, sometimes far off. I probably could have persevered and picked one that would be salvageable if set up and cared for, but I couldn’t bring myself to care.
I played several MIM Teles, and one of them was quite good, several were just okay. Somewhere in there I fell in love with an American Deluxe Tele and started focusing on models in that range because they felt so much better, and were really inspiring to play, and the lower end models became so much lower end in comparison.
I did find ‘dead’ MIM and American Teles, guitars that just weren’t right in the head, for no reason I could put my finger on. They just felt wrong, and I just couldn’t find the proper ‘juice’ in them compared to others.
WordMan, I got into this thread attempting to reassure the OP that his purchase is likely well suited for him and fills the bill; that action and intonation problems are remediable if present, and that a local luthier can keep an eye on any changes due to truss rod,change in string gauge, or acclimation.
I have no remarks on colour or place of manufacture but will note that Fender is analogous to Henry Ford’s Model T in that the product was made with the cheapest materials suitable, with relatively unskilled labour using Mr.Fender’s ingenious jigs and fixturing. Fender mass produced guitars at lower price than his competitors and was fortunate to have a few models define an era.
As for the Great Raging Debate on wood, let it continue. It has led to commissions for custom guitars/basses by musicians seeking to differentiate themselves. IMO, it almost doesn’t matter what wood the body is made of in a Strat/Tele (etc.) copy, they all sound close enough that given amp/pickup similarities most players fail blindfold tests in my shop. Note I am not comparing Strat style construction to Les Paul style.
As always, I enjoy reading your aptonymic posts on the matter.
all good sir - I agree with pretty much everything in your post - well except for the “aptonymic” part - my religion’s got nuthin’ to do with it! 
There’s a famous thread replicated on both the Gear Page and the LP Forum (which I really need to subscribe to next time it bubbles to the top) where a top session player and vintage collector posts a long blues jam where he swaps across a bunch of drool-worthy Gibsons - vintage LP’s, 335 types, a Firebird, a fully-hollow ES (I think a 330, with dog-ear P-90’s) - you get the idea. He did it blind and we all had to guess which was which. No one got them right - not even the OP. The point being that we all have our own ideas about what characteristics we look for and all have our biases.
But darn it, we can all tell when the right woods, metals, plastics and craft all combined to something truly special. There’s a famous experiment back in the day where classical-guitar pioneer Torres - the man largely responsible for the design of classical and flamenco guitars as we know them - made a guitar with a standard top with his (then new and revolutionary) bracing and paper-mache back and side and it has been reported to sound quite serviceable, good even. Sometimes you can isolate a feature (in this case, quality top and bracing on an acoustic) and sometimes not.
Okay - how about this Mr. Luthier: if you were to isolate a specific feature that defines the tone of a guitar, what would you pick? (sorry for the snotty Mr. L bit - I actually defer to your expertise…that is more of my way of saying “you know this stuff from a place I really, really don’t - you craft them; I just use 'em”). If I had to pick it would be two:
Whaddya think?
Yes, I have been chasing Torres’ tail for a while myself ala D’Aquisto and his mentor, more my passion than the electrics.
No need for deference, luthiers and musicians are a chicken and egg symbiosis.
I concur with your two isolations, especially the neck/body joint. Bolt ons never have the sustain (Les Pauls paramount ) of traditional tenons or other wood to wood construction like the through neck. But they offer that classic surf sound/ bell tone or however you define the elusive, a hallmark of the Fenders. Adrian Belew uses the screwed joint as a pivot for some tonal interest which would destroy a solid joint.
To contradict myself, there are woods that contribute to sustain, but won’t become commonplace for a number of reasons. Foremost is incredible weight; L.P.s are like balsa in comparison. Other reasons include difficult tooling even at a manufacturing level, sustainability and cost.
But since nobody makes tonal assessment of an unplugged electric guitar we get back to pickups and amp combos.
BTW, in your mentioned blind test I might have ID’ed the 330, especially with P-90’s as they are very susceptible to harmonic influence even at low volumes. Those I have worked on are always stuffed with cotton or fibreglass batting as countermeasure.
All good - I am traveling today for business so won’t be able to post, but I agree with your take on things. I’ll see if I can find that thread and let you pick it out. It was pretty suprising - and yeah, the 330 was the one that folks were able to guess most readily, IIRC…
What makes a Fender a Fender?
I gather a lot of people ‘build’ their guitars. If you put non-Fender pick-ups and control panel on it’s still a Fender, right? It says so on the head. What if you had a Telecaster and replaced the body with a ‘Licensed by Fender’ copy and reused all of the other parts or replaced them with factory upgrades? Now is it a Fender? What if you didn’t start with a Fender, but built a Telecaster from all-Fender parts? Or suppose you got a Squier and replaced everything except the body with Fender factory parts?
It sort of reminds me of the 200-year-old axe. (Heh.) It’s had five new heads and 20 new handles, but it’s still in fine shape!
How about Eddie Van Halen’s Frankenstrat - he originally built it with with (IIRC) little or no actual Fender parts - he used a Boogie Bodies (now Warmoth) body and neck, famously a *Gibson *PAF humbucking pickup he pulled out of an old ES 335, etc. - and later switched to Kramer, Ernie Ball and Peavey signature guitars. But who made the $30,000 limited edition Frankenstrat trophy guitars? Fender.
Per your “is it the same axe” question - I guess Heraclitus was right when he said “you can’t step into the same river twice”…
Gibson has its own issues as well - Les Pauls are kind of like Harleys: if you don’t do a lot of modifications, folks wonder what is taking you so long. You mean you paid $4,000 for a Les Paul VOS (Vintage Original Spec - fancy-sounding, but not really accurate), and you didn’t swap in new pickups, a fully upgraded wiring harness, etc?? There is a company that offers to take a VOS and make it closer to the originals - they re-shape the necks (purists think VOS reissues are too big) - but not before they prise off the fingerboard and remove the “truss-rod condom” - current Gibsons have the neck truss rod encased in a rubber sheath so there are no stray vibrations in the neck (a very rare problem) - and purists are convince it compromises the tone…
Interestingly, an ex-g/f used to have one of Eddie Van Halen’s guitars. She showed it to me in the late-'80s. Here’s a picture of it. I wonder if it was really one of his, or if someone made a copy.
