Ive always been in the "no new laws, just enforce the plethera of ones we already have"camp, and i just read a report from a supposedly moderate group called Americans for Gun Safety, that stated among other shocking things only 2% of all federal violations of the major 22 fed gun laws are actually prosecuted. From 2000-02 450,000 guns were stolen in US but only approx 500 fed charges stemmed from these thefts. Considering this report, do you think we need yet MORE gun laws? Consider the assult weapon ban etc. Link to report: http://w3.agsfoundation.com/enforcement.html
Just a guess, but I’d venture that that’s because the Feds don’t usually need to enforce gun laws. Local law enforcement does this. ?
Heres another guess back, but isnt the federal government the one responsible for enforcing federal law?
No, I just meant that the vast majority of all crimes are enforced at a local level. Having said that, I don’t know if that’s a statisical flaw in the OP or not.
IANAL but i believe its the local authorities responsibility to alert FBI to any federal crime violations and they pick it up from there.
While I am in the moderate liberal camp when it comes to gun control, the numbers are bullshit.
The logic used in the press release is stupid.
For instance, in the report they cite
during the three year period. They count that as 420,000 violations of Federal law. Technicall, it is. But suppose the average number of weapons stolen per incident was 5. Then you only have 80,000 actual cases which could be prosecuted. And just how many stolen gun cases are solvable? How many burglaries are solved on a national basis? What percentage? You can’t prosecute what you can’t solve.
Making the 2% sound as if there is no enforcement occuring, is just trickery. This time, it happens to be from the gun-control side.
I agree you can nitpick the numbers, but even so, the end resulting numbers still show a collossial failure of the enforcement of the federal laws. To further delve into the reports it states that lying on the gun application is a punishable offence by federal law and it is virtually NEVER prosectued when they do lie. They call the process “lie and try” I mean for crying out loud the peoples ADDRESSES are on the forms they lied on! This isnt the Forensic Files here.
sounds like we need more gun laws… :rolleyes:
Actually, the state/federal issue is a major reason that statistic is deceptive. Most of the time, gun crimes are both violations of state and federal law.
Let’s say a convicted felon (prohibited under federal law from possessing a firearm) commits armed robbery in New York with an unlicensed gun. He’s violated at least three criminal laws, federal gun possession by a felon, possession of an unlicensed weapon in New York and armed robbery.
Most likely he’ll be arrested by the local police in New York and prosecuted in the New York courts. As the penalty for armed robbery is much more severe than simple gun possession, the state prosecutor may only charge him with the armed robbery, and ignore the gun possession charge. (Most likely a sentence for armed robbery and a related gun possession charge would be served concurrently.) Exactly what a prosecutor decides to charge is an often complex question involving legal strategy and discretion.
Now let’s say he’s convicted of armed robbery. At some point, the federal authorities would probably be informed of the gun crime, but there’s really no reason for the feds to prosecute him as he’s already going up the river for the armed robbery. Even if he was acquitted of the state charges, the feds may not choose to prosecute him for the similar charges. In either of these events, looking at the statistics, it looks like an unprosecuted federal crime. In reality, it is a case in which the federal authorities deferred to the state authorities to punish conduct criminal under both state and federal law.
To delve even further into the report, and not just the press release, you can find statements which might help you to understand the dilemma–
Your quote to point #1 the purchaser is denied a gun. Umm so?? TRYING to get the gun is against the law. To not prosecute because someone was unsucessful is like not arresting someone for robbing a bank if he didnt get away with any money. Your quote point#2, i think this is the very problem at heart and therefore a huge reason why we dont NEED any more laws because perfectly good laws are ignored now. What in hell is the hangup with paperwork if you just had a FELON attempt to buy a gun? As far as im concerned you should call the SWAT team on them if they ever attempt it. Why is a felon trying to get a gun not a big anough deal to bother prosecuting for?? I mean thats unbelieveable! Gee im sorry we are clogging all the federal courts with dangerous people trying to get weapons, what were we thinking…let em go!!
Frankly, I am surprised it is that high(2%).
The background check is the best example of what our government really wants to do.
Every person who tries to buy a gun, and is rejected, is prosecutable. If we want to put those people in jail, then the percentage of those who fail the background check should be in the high 90’s, since we know who they are, we know were they are, the case is open and shut, and a clear violation of law.
Check out the total number of convictions/imprisonments of those who have failed the Brady background check to see what our government really wants.
I often wonder the motives of those people who want more unenforced laws???//
Only those who want them respond (please).
But isn’t this sort of the point? If the only time anyone gets caught violating federal gun laws is when they commit a crime with said weapon, what’s the point of federal gun laws? If the reason we need gun laws is so we can catch people with guns and prosecute them before they hold up a bank with the gun, this statistic shows that that’s obviously not working…
Shame on you Susanann, you should know better.
It is illegal to lie on the yellow form. It is illegal for certain convicted felons who have not had their rights restored to attempt to buy a gun.
It is NOT illegal to fail the background check. The NICS comes up with a fair number of false positives. The government knows this, which is why there is a procedure in place to appeal them (which does work at least some of the time).
I still believe you are arguing over semantics…the bottom line minus all the nitty gritty and excuses and a percentage here and there, when the wash is done the fed charge % numbers STILL seem insanely out of line with what they SHOULD be.
I am not talking about false positives, I am talking about the number who illegally try to buy a gun. Dont try to tell me that we have only had a dozen criminals illegally trying to buy a gun since the background check went into effect. From what clinton said about the success of the program, we should have hundreds of thousands in prison right now via this program. From what I understand, there are very very few people currently in prison who were caught by this law/procedure. For all the time, money, and manpower spent on this background check, I expect to see many thousands put in prison because of it, else why not just spend the time and money on regular old police work.
Does anyone have any hard and good numbers of how many people are now “”""“in prison”"""" because of this law?
Jonpluc: you seem to have missed Billdo’s post above, so I’ll reitierate in my own idiom.
Violations of the law tend to be prosecuted at the lowest level possible; this allows the really sexy crimes to be prosecuted with the really big Federal guns. Just look at the D.C. Sniper; Virginia gets first (and probably loast) crack at him and his little psycho apprentice.
When the NRA and other pro-gun groups spout off that we have 22,000+ gun laws in these United STates, it’s because state laws duplicate to some degree or another many federal laws, with the real difference being where the crime was committed. IOW, geographic jurisdiction.
That being said, I’d take that 2% figure with a lot less salt if they also showed some statistical breakdown of state-level prosecutions of gun crimes, and violent crimes committed with firearms where firearms laws violations could be (and were!)prosecuted as well.
That would make that “2%” figure either stand tall or fall flat on its face as a deception.
And before you try and tear me a new one, I’m one of the seriously pro-gun people on the Straight Dope. Having “been there and done that” a few times too many, I usually just get disgusted and leave in a huff. Not really honest or productive, I know.
But there’s only so many times you can go to the well before you come up dry.