Gun nerds: recommend a pistol

In My Humble Opinion
21

The Bersa .380 has a pretty good reputation, but handguns as small as that have somewhat “snappy” recoil. The only thing resisting the recoil is a spring and your arm, being a blowback-operated firearm. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but they have a tendency to be uncomfortable to shoot. Also, not to start the argument about stopping power (which can go on for pages with no resolution), a 95-grain .380 ACP JHP (jacketed hollow point) has notably less muzzle velocity and energy than a typical 9mm round out of a longer barrel.

My suggestion: a service-sized 9mm handgun. Try a used Sig P220, a Glock 17 or 19, a Springfield XD9, or a new P-series Ruger. Load it with a premium 147-grain hollow point and you’ll be good to go.

Last, .380 ACP is next to impossible to find right now due to the nationwide ammunition shortage. It cost me almost $100 for 200 rounds when I found some, and I haven’t seen any on the shelves since. 9mm, however, is relatively easy to find and at decent prices, which makes it much more cost-effective to shoot.

22

**Airman **is right… a small handgun is not fun to shoot. My buddy has a little .32 that is downright painful to shoot. Stings my hand terribly.

Get a 9 mm. The recoil is light, the stopping power is adequate, and the ammo is plentiful and not that expensive. Pay at least $400 for it. Go with one of the manufacturers who have a reputation for making quality firearms (Glock, Sig, S&W, Springfield, etc.). Also get a Walther P22 for ultra-cheap plinking and training.

23

I like the way this site shows you how to pick a gun according to hand size, kick, and some history about the types of guns and amo for women.

http://www.corneredcat.com/Men/buywifegun.aspx

24

I hesitate to post this, and I hope it doesn’t get out of hand. Airman is right that the topic is contentious. But regarding ‘stopping power’…

Many people say that a .32 or a .380 will just make an attacker mad. To them, nothing short of a made-in-America .45 is suitable. But it occurs to me that many, many people have been killed by a .36 ball propelled by black powder. I’ve read that a typical load is equivalent to a .32 ACP. I’ve read that a ‘hot’ load (i.e., more black powder – call it 23 to 25 grains) and a conical bullet yields about the same energy as a .38. I’ve only found one table that shows the energy of a black powder .36, and the number it gives seems a bit high to me; so I haven’t compared the number with more widely-available data for cartridges.

Many people have also been killed by the .32 ACP, which was a standard caliber for police in Europe. I’ve heard that European .32 rounds are loaded hotter than American ones. In the U.S. the most common police round for a very long time was the .38 Special. Both the .32 ACP and the .38 SPL were quite popular with civilians (including criminals) in the U.S.

My point is that for a civilian I don’t believe that ‘stopping power’ is that important. AIUI, the debate centers on the Moro Rebellion where U.S. soldiers found the .38 to be inadequate against a fanatical enemy. I may well be wrong, but I consider a confrontation with a criminal who wants to get some money and be alive to spend it to be different from a mass battle against enemies who are ready to die for a cause.

There are also some potential legal considerations. If you shoot someone with a +P hollowpoint, it may be argued that you intended to kill him. Generally, though deadly force is permitted and usually little sympathy is afforded the perpetrator, you’re really only allowed to ‘stop’ the criminal. That is, make him stop attacking you; not necessarily stop him from being alive. Of course ‘It’s better to be tried by twelve, than carried by six.’ But there are large numbers of people who voice their willingness to kill criminals and back up their beliefs by carrying the most deadly gun they can, rather than being of the attitude that the criminal should be stopped from his current activity. A prosecutor might very well make the point that the person who killed a criminal intended to kill, and is therefore guilty of a crime. (On the other hand, if you don’t kill the criminal you may more easily be subject to civil action. Being willing to use a gun is a serious decision, even without the moral aspects one needs to confront.)

I have a CCW, but I don’t carry. I got it as a novelty, since they’re practically impossible to get in L.A. and I got one up here because I could. I’ve found it also makes it easier to add to my collection, as there is no waiting period for CCW holders. My interest in firearms is strictly for sporting use, and for historic interest. I’ve never felt the need to carry. I’ve never been robbed, so I don’t really know what a robber is like. But it seems to me that any lead heading in a robber’s direction is likely to make him rethink his actions. If that is true, then caliber and stopping power don’t really matter. If you have to use a gun, it’s probably not going to be an extended shoot-out like you see in the movies.

A .32 gun (in your pocket for fun, and a razor in your shoe) is probably quite adequate for any situation you’d likely find yourself in – short of a military action or a mass gang attack. A .380 ACP will be less expensive and the ammo is more readily available. .32 and .380 ‘pocket pistols’ are light and easy to conceal and carry. There are also 9mm and .45 ACP pistols that are fairly small, and a .38 Special or .357 Magnum (which will also digest cheaper and easier-to-shoot .38 Special) can be had with a short barrel. I think ‘stopping power’ is less important than one’s proficiency and willingness to use whatever gun one might have.

I apologise for the hijack. I know that many will disagree with me, but I’m not prepared to engage in a ‘stopping power debate’. I just wanted to state my opinion.

25

As far as service caliber weapons go, you can’t go wrong with any of the “Big 3” (.45 ACP, .40S&W, 9mm Luger), with good hollowpoints, the damage they produce is all quite similar, so it comes down to whatever gun fits your hand better and has the recoil impulse you can tolerate/handle

People that haven’t shot a .45 ACP think the .45 ACP has a horribly powerful, brutal recoil, mainly due to the fact that it shoots a big .45 caliber bullet, and most are surprised when they do fire it and find the recoil impulse is basically a smooth, slow, push back towards the shooter, a very linear recoil
.40S&W has a much snappier recoil, when fired, the pistol both pushes back quickly and rotates upward at the wrist, the .40S&W actually has a harsher recoil than the .45 ACP
9mm has a similar recoil impulse as the .40, but just not as quick and intense, still, snappier than the .45

one other thing to keep in mind is that the weight of the gun also helps to mitigate recoil, the heavier the gun, the less the percieved/felt recoil, the easier to get back on target for a followup shot, and the easier to hold steadily on target, plus, the balance point stays consistent

Let’s compare two 9mm pistols, a Glock 17, and a CZ-75B, both shot in double-action (Safe Action in the Glock), the Glock has a polymer grip frame and a steel slide, the CZ-75 is all steel
The Glock will have a sharper, snappier recoil than the CZ, as it’s a lighter pistol, plus, as the magazine empties, the balance point will subtly shift towards the muzzle, as the mag gets lighter due to expending the rounds
The CZ-75 will have a softer recoil, due to the weight of the gun absorbing some of the recoil impulse, and the balance point will stay basically neutral as the mag empties, so there will be no subtle shift in point of aim

the CZ will be the more comfortable gun to shoot due to it’s weight, the Glock will be the more comfortable gun to carry concealed, due to it’s lack of weight

Personally, I’d choose the CZ, I like Glocks, have owned them in the past, but they’re just not comfortable in my hands, the CZ is

26

Am I the only one who prefers the Smith & Wesson Model 41?

27

I shot with a Glock 23 recently. Had never fired anything with .40 S & W, but found it surprisingly comfortable. The pistol felt very good in my hand, and the recoil was not bad at all. If I were in the market for a pistol, I’d be leaning toward that.

28

Honestly, it’s never been on my radar. The industry standards, for better or worse, are the Ruger Mark series and the Browning Buckmark, with a few people holding out for the abysmal Walther P22 and the Sig Mosquito. I didn’t even know the Model 41 existed.

29

The Buckmark is really nice.

I have a P22. It’s an O.K. gun. I like how lightweight it is. But it’s not what I would consider to be a “well made” gun; it sort of feels like a toy, to be honest. And it’s rather finicky about ammo.

30

I have both a Buckmark and a High Standard Sportsman in .22. The Buckmark edges out the Sportsman by a RCH, even though the Sportsman has two different barrels and is a legacy piece.

When it comes to real guns, don’t make me choose between my High Power and my various .45s.

31

This contradicts a statement further up. Would anyone care to rectify this?

32

Huh. I made an assumption based on never noticing .32 ACP for sale. But darned if .32 ACP and .380 ACP aren’t in the same price range.

33

Friend silenus,

If i must choose among the semi autos, I prefer the 9mm High Power to the .45. But as I have often said: If you can’t kill it with six shots from a .357 magnum, you probably shouldn’t be shooting at it.

34

Does anyone have experience/opinions with the various .22LR conversion kits for Glocks and 1911s? It seems that would be the best of both worlds, while giving Cardinal needed experience with the controls on his personal defense pistol. I’ve been looking at Glocks for my first pistol, and wondered if the conversion kits were worthwhile or not.

The Ruger Mark II and Browning Buckmark sure are a load of fun though.

Bit of a threadjack, but if it’s home defense that’s the issue, and not CCW, why not get a .223 or a shotgun? The .223 will probably run a bit more than $400 though…

35

What’s a Hi-Power selling for nowadays, anyway?

36

I like the idea of two guns, one a 22LR for practice and one a heavier caliber for self defense.

In the 1980s I was in a Nato bunker in Germany and there was a large pile of gun magazines. I had the time to read them all. This one writer: Massad Ayoob was his name, did a study of what he called “one shot stops” or “one shot kills” and concluded that the smallest caliber one should choose for self defense was 38 special. I recommend reading Massad Ayoobs writings on the subject.

37

I think upon reading this:

some people thought of this. When what you really meant was “If I get another job next year (which just happens to be teaching), I’ll have some cash and/or some spare time, so I may actually buy a pistol.”

38

A lot of great info has already been given. If a range/fun gun is the primary focus, you might consider a CZ-82 in 9x18 Makarov. These are used, surplus sem-autos that are really fun to shoot and easy to maintain. They are about $190-$220 on various Web sites, and are listed as C&R guns as a bonus (for those with C&R licenses). 9x18 ammo might be hard to find locally, but fairly cheap mail order (under $10/50).

As a middle-of-the-night gun, my S&W model 37 .38 revolver is great. As others have pointed out, it is a grab-and-shoot gun; no fumbling with safeties, no worries about jams. Easy enough at the range that the petite Mrs. does pretty well with it (and it’s the first gun she’s ever shot).

I recently picked up a Taurus TCP in .380, and indeed: .380 ACP ammo is very scarce right now. I did manage to pick up a couple of boxes of it at the Cabela’s in Harrisburg, PA for about $19/50. There are a lot more choices for 9mm ammo.

Which brings me to my next pistol: S&W M&P 9mm (compact or full I haven’t decided). I have read tons of good end-user reviews. I rented one at the range a month back, and just like so many have said it points so naturally and feels just right. The sights are easy to pick up. It comes with three different backstraps to customize to your hand. It’s a joy to shoot. New ones are $539, though.

39

Wrong. As I recollect his posting history, Gatopescado is one of those who believes only police and active military have a good reason to own defensive firearms.

It seems most everyone comprehends that someone might try to a cop or a soldier because it is the duty of cops and soldiers to protect the average citizen. But the reality that someone might try to kill an average guy going about his business is just too frightening for many people to accept. I think the idea is that the average citizen should never have to protect himself; when real life doesn’t correlate with this kind of denial, it is so much easier to blame a tangential aspect (the tool, if a gun was used) rather than admit that violence is an inextricable part of human nature.

40

I think that as a general rule, 32s and 380s are cheaper; however, when Obama got into office, there was a super panic. Anything smaller than a 45 was snatched off of the shelves as soon as they were put there. If you had looked, last spring, for a box of 9s, 38s, 380s, 32s, you would have seen empty shelves. OR, hyper inflated prices. Or, Russian stuff, which somehow got a bad rap.
Now, the market is loosening up. 9s can be had, 38s almost like normal, but, I still haven’t seen 380s at walmart (where i do my ammo shopping!)
Now, to the main: How come nobody has mentioned the KelTec, 9mm P-11? I have been planning on getting one of them. They are under 300, super light and, allegedly, quite nice. Or, is that just hype?

But, I always prefer revolvers. I have a dandy 38 snub nose, Charter Arms. It’s more expensive than I thought it would be, though.
Best wishes,

hh