Thanks for all the compliments but I mostly pass on what I know from my modest experience and what I’ve learned from much more experienced shooters.
That article is a good example of how you need a context to understand what it says. The .500 S&W may have grizzly bear stopping ballistics but that comes with a huge bulky weapon with extremely heavy recoil that probably make it a poor choice for defense. I’m in the .45 ACP camp as is ExTank but that is a bad choice for someone who can’t handle the recoil. Read the section on tactical realities to put the rest of it in perspective.
Funny but I have no particular desire for a .500 magnum. If I were spending that much money I’d much rather have a tricked out 1911 like the Sig GSR or a high end .22 target pistol like a S&W 41 or a vintage Hi Standard Victor.
You guys wouldn’t happen to know of an online “Blue Book” for guns, wouldya?
For insurance purposes, I’m putting together a list of my serial numbers for myself, including dollar values of my guns. I also want to see how good I’ve wheeled-and-dealed in the past and see how well my ‘Robenomics’ has done.
[/hijack]
Tripler
As my father says, “I have more guns than I need, but not as many as I want.”
Not a blue book by any means but you can get a pretty good idea what guns are worth by going to auctionarms or gunbroker.com.
You also might think of buying a mil surplus collectable. Make sure your gunsmith takes a good look at it before trusting it.
I’ve never felt that a .45 had that bad a recoil; not the full-sized versions, anyway. My Springfield V-10 Ultra-Compact kicks a bit harder than the full-sized, even with the vented barrel, but nowhere near as bad as a .44 Magnum. The Crimson Trace grips and several thousands of rounds of ammo downrange and on target has made me very comfortable with it as a home/personal defense weapon. Same for my 92F, which is a real pleasure to shoot; accurate, controllable, but I’m iffy about the damage it does in a “crunch.”
And ditto re: .500. I’d just as soon pick up a .40 S&W and some Crimson Trace for the price I’d pay for a .500.
I don’t think .45 ACP has bad recoil either but I’m a fairly big guy and I’m accustomed to recoil. My wife still thinks that 9mm has harsh recoil so for now most centerfire guns would just give her a flinch reaction. My carry gun is a Sig P245, a shorty version of the P220 and has an alloy frame so it has harsher recoil than a full size 1911.
Oh, we took our colleagues shooting at lunchtime today and had a lot of fun. Ronald was comfortable with everything but he had some shooting experience when he was in the German military. He shot my Walther P22 and told me that German police actually carry them which floored me. Andrea suprised me by asking to shoot another few magazines from my 1911 and from what I could tell she developed no flinch which is a bit suprising for a first time shooter. She favored my Buckmark with a red dot sight and kept making very small groups even after switching from the 1911.
The club really impressed me as they had all new shooters watch a short, in house made video explaining and demonstrating the four rules before letting us on the range. It took us a few minutes to figure out their target system but we really liked the feature of being able to enter in the exact distance you wanted to shoot at rather than having to run the targets out manually and having to guess range.
Since this thread seems to have turned into a caliber discussion let me put in my .02:
My daily carry gun is a Beretta 96 Brigadier .40 and I like it a lot, 9mm just seemed too “wimpy” for me to depend on and .45’s that I looked at were so down in capacity compared to the .40 that I stopped looking very quickly.
My carry setup:
Beretta 96 Brigadier .40 with a Mec-gar preban magazine in it (holds 12) and 1 “in the pipe” with a stock mag as a backup (holds 10) by my count that’s 24 (including me throwing my empty $700.00 brick at you).
Save money somewhere else!, if you are going to trust your life to a gun it needs to be the best it can be.
And train, train, train, can you say “muscle memory”?, I hope you can.
Well, I’m going to probably go by a gun shop, theOld West Gun Room in El Cerrito, after work on Friday and mostly trust the dealer there. That shop has a pretty good reputation, and it looks serious.
I’ll be looking at 22LR’s as Padeye suggested, probably semi-autos.
Anything specific, brand-wise, that I should look out for? I’ve got a pretty good eye for craftmanship in general, fit and finish and all that, but know nothing about what I should get for 2-3 hundred bucks (or less?). I’m sure there are brands I’d be better off to stay away from completely. If I do get “hooked” ;), I’ll look for real quality next time. But I don’t like junk.
Also, how about new vs used?
A semi-auto .22LR pistol?, then it’s very simple. Buy a new, Ruger Mark II .22 pistol, they are shockingly cheap, well built and accurate and the thing will last for generations.
A fine quality weapon and there are a billion of them out there (seriously, production is well into the millions, I’ve got one).
50 bajillion Ruger MkII fans can’t be wrong. It’s a simple design but absolutely not junk. Even if you go on to other guns you’ll never outgrow it. There are other good choices but I can’t imagine anyone saying this isn’t sound advice or that you would ever regret buying one.
I don’t know about “shockingly cheap,” though. A basic target model is about $400. You might consider the mechanically similar MkIII which is about $250-260 for the same configuration, 5-1/2" heavy barrel with adjustable target sights. The difference is the MkII has a steel grip frame with a very angled, Lugeresque shape. The MkIII has a polymer grip frame shaped more conventionally, like a 1911 which I prefer. Note that even with the polymer frame all the working/wear parts are steel in both guns. The grip shape is a real matter of taste so try out both if you possibly can.
Being a Cowboy Action Shooter (currently on hiatus), I’m a fan of big bore six-guns, and John Taffin nailed it in one when describing Rugers: “practically indestructible.” Rugged as all hell, the things last forever with routine maintenance.
I’ve got two Vaqueros in .45 Long Colt, and have shot some amazingly hot loads through them, with no appreciable effect on the guns (though my hands didn’t care for the experience all that much; the recoil made a .44 magnum seem like a Nancy-boy’s toy).
Bill Ruger seemed to have struck a magic formula for firearms: rugged, reliable and cost effective.
They aren’t the prettiest, they aren’t the highest quality, they aren’t the most expensive.
But the danged things are “practically indestructible.”
Me.
Well, hell. You guys talked me into it. This afternoon I stopped by the gun shop and handled 2 or 3 versions of each of the Mark II and the Mark III. They both are pretty nice, better than I expected for 22’s. I finally settled on the MarkII with the fat 5 1/2" barrel and adjustable rear sight (MK512?), which I think is the model mentioned by Padeye. I liked the feel of the grips better than the Mark III, which were flat and reminded me of the grips on the fake .45’s we qualified with in boot camp back in '64. I preferred the shape and rougher feel of the Mark II.
Tomorrow I’ll go back, take my test, and then wait out the ten days. Then off to the range and I’ll see what I can do with it.
Thanks for all the good advice. It really helped to take some of the mystery out of the whole thing. Maybe I’ll post pictures of my first targets. (Nope. ;))
Another member of the fraternity*. Welcome my brother. Don’t worry, no homoerotic initiation rituals, just lots of good-old-boy fun.
Yep, the Mk512 was the one I was talking about. Did you get blue or stainless steel? Mine was blue and of all the .22s I’ve owned I think I could shoot it most accurately.
You might look at a few accessories to make your range experence go more smoothly. [ul]
[li]Hearing protection - I have both custom molded earplugs and electronic hearing protectors - earmuffs with microphone/speaker and special electronics that allow you to hear speech normally while quieting gunfire. Find something comfortable if you are sensitive to things in your ears or pressure on your head as this can make the difference between fun and misery. T[/li][li]Safety glasses - Do not shoot without them. Fragments of powder and sometimes splattered bullets or ejected cases can come toward you. Eyeballs are not replaceable. [/li][li]Range bag - It’s nice to have all your sh*t in one sock so to speak. You have more to carry than just your gun. Paper grocery bags are frowned on and your guns will get scratched up when they all fall out the bottom plus it looks like a scene out of Goodfellas. You can spend a lot on one but I’ve seen some soft fishing tackle bags that are modestly priced and work well. [/li][li]Staple gun - an indispensable accessory, how many folks have targets but no way to attach them to the backstop. A light duty one does fine. [/li][li]Targets - this is a “well duh.” item but I’ve gone to the range more than once without them. :smack: [/li][li]Cleaning kit - I suggest you not get a pistol cleaning rod right away. With .22s you are far more likely to damage the fine rifling grooves by cleaning it improperly than to cause it any harm by leaving it dirty. Later on you might want to get a cleaning rod with guide but wait until you learn to disassemble your MkII so you can clean the barrel properly from the rear. Get some rags to wipe down and some gun oil to keep the working parts lubricated. [/ul][/li]
Oh, about disassembling the MkII, the instructions tell you how to do it but putting it back together is tricky at best. Don’t field strip it until you find someone that knows how to put it back together.
*An equal opportunity organizations, we allow chicks.
Cleaning and working on a mark II is not hard once you learn the “tricks”, go to www.markii.org and look in the links for Yzguy’s website, he has ALL the answers (and there are photo’s with circles and arrows).
I stand corrected. I failed to notice “22/45 MkIII” on the right side of the reciever when I looked at one as I was used to seeing it on the left. I know my old style 22/45 was not marked “MkII” anywhere.
