Hey PKBites...a gun question for you

In My Humble Opinion
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Directed at you because I know you’re in the Milwaukee area and know something about guns so you may or may not be able to answer the question. Everyone else can help me with the non-Milwaukee specific questions.

Anyways, I’ve had the itch to take up target shooting (handgun/pistol/revolver) for a while. My dad promised he would take me when I turned 16, but that was, well, almost 16 years ago. Just yesterday I sent in my CCW application so that renewed my interest and before him and his buddies drag me out shooting I wanted to get a little bit of training under my belt and I was wondering if you can recommend any ranges that can train someone that’s never shot a handgun before. The most I’ve done is .22 rifles at summer camp when I was a Boy Scout so I’m basically starting at zero here. Some ranges have NRA classes, some seem to have their own classes, some have websites that don’t say much at all that I send an email (since I’ve read good things about on the internet) and one that has a class coming up in a few days I figured out is the old Badger Guns…not going anywhere near that place. So also, in the Milwaukee specific part of the OP, are there any gun shops/ranges that you recommend not even just for classes but perhaps someday for purchasing? Any places (other then Badger) to stay away from? Can you tell me in general if it’s cheaper to buy direct or buy over the internet and have it shipped to a store? Do you know what a store charges to transfer a gun like that?

Also, I’m basing this all on knowing that you were a Milwaukee police officer and I think I’ve seen you post something about guns here and there. If if this isn’t anything you know about, let me know. I’m just getting bored looking at all the same info on all the gun shops’ websites and haven’t felt like setting up an account on one of the Wisconsin gun boards yet.

What I’m looking for is a class that teaches everything from safety to how to take apart/reassemble the gun to shooting (safely). It would also need to be a class that rents guns to students. From looking around it seems as though I could just walk into any of the handful of ranges we have and just tell them I want to shoot for an hour. It seems like most of them are happy to help me out, but I’m looking for actual training not just five minutes with a shopkeeper in between customers.

I’m thinking my best bet is an NRA class only because if I choose to continue with the training sticking with NRA classes would be the most consistent and recognizable training. OTOH, looking around, most of those classes are 8 or 10 hours. While not impossible, makes it really difficult for me to get to. Also, if I were to take one of the NRA classes, I’m not sure if I should be taking the Basic Pistol or FIRST Steps Pistol class. I’m not entirely sure what the difference is.

Also, BTW, if you have friends that need/want to take a CCW class the one I took was REALLY good and insanely informative. It was 4 hours and 100% jam packed with information. It was also very entertaining (I assure you that no one is going to fall asleep during these 4 hours) and I only paid $50. If you have any interest, I can get you the info. There’s also a semi-retired police officer on my block that does a class for $30, but I don’t know anything about his class.
If anyone else wants the info, they do the class in Milwaukee and Michigan.

Also, one last question (for anyone). How well do guns hold their value? I’m just thinking ahead here. If I were to really enjoy it, I’m wondering if I’ll be better off paying the extra 10 or 15 dollars an hour to rent a gun to target shoot with or buying one (after the first few times I rent and know what I like) and then selling it when I’m ready for a new/bigger/better one (or just done with it). If I can get a $400 gun and sell it for $300 in a few years (assuming I maintain it), that’s great (and it’ll save money over renting. If a $400 gun is worth $20 in a few years then it would have to be a gun I would plan to keep. (Also, there’s at least two ‘help me pick a gun’ threads, so I’m not looking for advice on what specific type of gun to get in this thread)

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bump

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Guns hold their value reasonably well, which is to say that they don’t depreciate rapidly like cars or computers do. Do not take this to mean that you will be able to sell it for even what you have in it, much less a profit. In troubled economic times like these, there is a glut of used firearms on the market as people who are hurting for money sell them off. The more plain vanilla and current production your gun is, the less demand there will be for it on the used market.
Buy good quality guns from 1st tier makers and buy them because you want to keep them. Don’t get caught up in the idea of them as any real kind of investment.

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I’m not looking to try to make money off them, I’m just looking at the economics of renting at the range vs buying. That’s not to say that wanting a gun won’t play into it at some point, but as of right now, I was just looking at the math.

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For current production, off-the-shelf guns you’d be doing well indeed to get 60% of what you paid for it if you sell it used. If you try to sell it to a dealer, he’ll give you even less as he needs to be able to re-sell it at a profit. In this market, you might want to consider buying used guns from individuals rather than new guns from a store or show. You’d then have a chance at selling them for what you put into them. That absolutely will not occur with new, in-production guns.

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(bolding mine)

The major drawback to renting at the range vs. owning a personal weapon IMHO, would have to be, you don’t know for sure how the rental is going ‘shoot’.
ie: Is it sighted in for accuracy, has it been cleaned recently, how many rounds have been fired out of it.

One advantage to renting a weapon at a gun range is the opportunity to try out various brands and types of pistols, before plunking down a big chunk of change. :wink:

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Much like you, I had the “itch to take up target shooting (handgun/pistol/revolver) for a while.” And also, I’m 32 and my only prior experience was shooting a .22 bolt action rifle in boy scouts.

Well, one day I called a friend of mine and went to the local gun shop with range. I was a little nervous being new to handguns, but we rented a lane for an hour for $25, and paid an extra $10 to rent a gun that we could change out as often as we wanted. (had to buy ammo too, that was an extra $50 because we kept changing caliber). Anyway, I had no (as in zero) experience shooting a handgun, and really I had no trouble with any of the weapons we tried and had a ton of fun. The staff was very helpful. Got to shoot a Beretta PX4 .40, Ruger LC9 9mm, and S&W M&P22.

A lot of people tried to steer me toward a .22 because I was a first timer, but I gotta tell ya, with no training I didn’t have any trouble handling the .40, sure I wasn’t the best, but I was putting lead on target and it was great fun to shoot.

Anyway, I would just recommend you to go to the range and shoot a variety of guns, even though you are new to shooting (don’t be afraid to just show up at the range and ask questions and try shooting a few guns!), and while you’re there check out the multitude of fliers for gun classes. The workers should be pretty knowledgeable about local classes as well. So i say, just go for it!

I wound up going a few more times and finally bought a Ruger LCP .380. I chose that model because its so light and small, great for CCW (I don’t have yet, but plan to), and the ammunition is relatively affordable. The .40 is so expensive I couldn’t afford to practice with it as much as one should.

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An unusual fact in the ranges around here (California) – possibly in your area, too: If you come to a range ALONE, they will not rent you a gun. If you come with a buddy, you can rent a gun (or guns). If you come to a range alone with your OWN gun(s), no problem.

I think the idea is, they don’t want someone who only wants to commit suicide to go to the range and rent a gun there for that purpose.

I don’t know if it works the same way in your area, but I thought I’d mention it.

J.

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I always recommend a .22 as a first gun or target gun because they’re so cheap to shoot. 500 rounds for about $10 is a whole lot better than a dollar a round to shoot my .45 1911.

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A WHAT? Where are you that .45 goes for a dollar a round? That’s .50 Action Express or .460 prices where I’m at. You may consider checking Cabela’s and having them ship bulk packs to you. Wow, I thought prices were back to normal after the Great Ammunition Shortage.

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I bought a box of 50 from Remington and it was something like $47 about 2 months ago. I may check Cheaper Than Dirt the next time I need more. I got a box of 50 .380 for about $23 though. At the same time, I bought 25 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense for about $25, so another dollar a shot there. I don’t shoot those often though.

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I checked Cabela’s and you can get UMC 250 round yellow box for $104.99, about .40 a shot. The guy that last sold you ammunition took you for a ride. A dollar a shot… man, when it gets that expensive it’s time to start reloading and saving a fortune.

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Wow. Yeah** FordTaurus**, after I just bought my .45 I bought TWO boxes of 250 grain Federal FMJ rounds for $18.99 apiece. So 100 rounds for about $40 with tax.

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I just wrote about it in the other “help me buy a pistol” thread but my store just got held up. Still not sure if I want to CC, but the thought of owning a gun is something I’m going to consider a whole lot more seriously now.

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Wow, sorry to hear about that Joey P. :frowning:
Glad that you’re okay. :slight_smile:

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I just found this thread, so forgive the late response.

Why not? Theres absolutely nothing wrong with it. I’ve shot there many, many times. As have a lot of cops. I didn’t care for it so much when it was run by Mick Beatovic as [IMHO] he’s a giant gas bag who doesn’t know WTF he’s talking about, but he’s been out for a long time. Don’t let the hyperbole of recent news reports bother you. There is nothing wrong with that place.

No I wasn’t. I retired from a large department located in Milwaukee county but it wasn’t MPD. The department I work for now part-time is a state agency.

Get in contact with Tom Sipin. He’s also a retired officer. He does firearms training for security/private investigators as well as people looking to get their CCW license. I’ve never trained with him, but my cousin has. He says Tom is very thorough to the point of being anal when it comes to training.

Guns hold their value well when taken care of. A well maintained pistol will last forever. But it still will not fetch what you paid for it new when sold used. Do your research on what type/caliber you want and then go rent one to see if you like it.

My 2 cents:

I like my Baby Glock alot! It’s small enough I can carry it in a pocket using Clipdraw or a Pocket Holster. It’s light enough to walk around with using an Ankle Holster. Or I’ll just carry it on my hip.

They come in a variety of calibers (.380 [hard to find in the USA], 9mm, .40, .45, .357Sig, 10mm, 45GAP, etc.) and for their size 10+1 rounds is 6 more rounds than a snubby revolver holds. Plus they accept the larger capacity magazines. Using an X-grip the pistol becomes a full size gripped gun. The versatility of this weapon is amazing.

The only permanent change I made to mine was I added a manual safety to mine called Siderlock.I didn’t want to shoot a hole in my thigh when I carried in my pocket. The Siderlock works well.

I’ve carried an assortment of handguns in my life, in .38, .357, .40, .45, and 9mm. I prefer the 9mm. Using proper loads it has plenty of stopping power yet it’s light, crisp recoil makes shooting and staying on target easy.

For home defense and zombie apocalypse warfare I have an Olympic Arms AR-15 that shoots the same ammo and takes the same magazines as my pistol. A cheaper alternative to that is a Kel-Tec Sub-2000

P Beitz

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Since starting this thread I talked to a gun nut friend of mine and mentioned what I said above and he made a somewhat similar statement. I’ve never been a gun person, never paid much attention to gun shops, they’ve just never really been on my radar. All I know I is that Badger guns seems to be on the news a lot (or at least was a few years ago). But, I’ve had a few people tell me that it’s a good place to go and since the things that they were in the news for aren’t anything I’m planning to do, I’m happy to give them a shot (as I previews this…no pun intended).

My fault, I know I’ve seen you mention that you were in law enforcement and I know you’re in Milwaukee. I just made the leap, I hadn’t given it much thought.

I’ll keep that name in mind. I’ve also hear very good things about Robert Llanas that works out of Fletcher Arms. But he was booked for about 3 weeks when I talked to him.
I eneded up connecting with Krysta through OpenCarry. She did the NRA First Steps class with me. It wasn’t terribly through but it got me on the range shooting which is what I needed. At the very least I feel confident enough that I could go back alone if I wanted. But I still plan to take more classes or at least spend more time with people that can help me improve.

Since starting this thread I managed to acquire a Glock 22. I like the idea of that safety and I’m glad I’m not the only person who sat there looking at that thing going “errr…there’s no safety” and all I hear/read is “The Glock has a trigger safety and 2 internal safeties” and “Glocks WILL NOT shoot unless you pull the trigger due to the Glock Safe Action technology”…“yeah but it’s really easy to pull the trigger”. So anyways, if I end up keeping this gun I may well get one of those.
I picked up some snap caps to play with and had some problems with them. They were jamming when I racked the slide but I chalked it up to a combination of me not really knowing what I was doing and them not being real bullets. When I got to the range I had the same problem. What was happening was the the casing wasn’t backing out (extracting) from the barrel so when the next one tried to load the slide wouldn’t move forward. It got kind of old dropping the magazine, shaking the brass out and starting over each time so I only shot it five times (huge difference over the .22 I rented). When I got home I watched youtube videos on how to detail strip the gun and found that the extractor was missing. I’ll have to talk to the person that gave it to me to see if he has it.

Having said all that. I REALLY like the Glock 26. The G22 that I have is a nice looking gun, but I don’t see myself walking around with that if I ever decide to CC. If one of the ranges around here rents them I’ll try to go shoot one when I have a chance.

Would the suburban (St Francis) police use an AR-15? That looks a lot like the guns that the cops had pointed at me when we got robbed and I walked out side to let them know that they could come in.

Funny story about that. They got to the store at what must have been seconds after the bad guy left. I walked to the front door, saw the lights, saw the guns pointed towards the door and walked out waving my arms over my head (all the cops know me..but still). The next day someone asked my ex wife why the cops were after me (my ex knew the story so she explained it). When you think about it, everyone driving down this very busy road just saw lots of cops in a parking lot and two of those types of guns pointed at a guy (me) with his arms up in the air. :smiley: Well, at least they had a good story to tell their family when they got home!

The next thing I’m thinking about doing is picking up a .22 for practice. I always heard about doing that because the ammo is so much cheaper, but it really hit me when I was at the range and bought a box of .40 for $16 and a box of .22 for $3. If I shot 50 rounds AND didn’t rent a gun that would save $23 each time I went. After going 20 times that would be $460. $720 if I shot 100 rounds. That would more then pay for a nice .22 semiautomatic.