One of the things I’ve learned about guns is that they are not the problem. Guns are just machines. The problem lies with the idiots who all too often come into possession of guns.
So, I wonder if responsible gun owners and gun control advocates could possibly come together and try to figure out a way to get guns away from those who abuse the right to own them. Sometimes adversaries discover that they share a common goal.
Peace,
mangeorge
I only know two things;
I know what I need to know
And
I know what I want to know
Mangeorge, 2000
Like what? Passing a law that requires a person who uses a gun in the commission of a crime to be given a longer sentence? As if anyone would pass a law like that! Even if it were to pass? Who would enforce it?
Maybe we should have an organization that promotes gun safety? Who would join?
Maybe you’d like some sort of consensus that would make up some crazy law like barring convicted felons from possessing a firearm? And they… hahaha… and then… enforcing it! Hahahahahahaha!
It’ll never happen. What are you? A flake?
“I must leave this planet, if only for an hour.” – Antoine de St. Exupéry
I don’t think mangeorge is a flake. Tremendously naive, perhaps, but that’s kind of an endearing quality.
Reminds me of the scene in Mars Attacks, where Jack Nicholson (as the President) makes an impassioned and eloquent appeal to the martians and asks, “Why can’t we just get along?” And the martian puts his tail through Jack’s chest.
Against stupidity the very gods / Themselves contend in vain.
Those are some wonderful ideas, Johnny. But I’m thinking early intervention here. Like, fer instance, if one comes across someone making a maniacal reply to a question.
Peace,
mangeorge
I don’t think mangeorge is a flake (although for the longest time I thought he was “mange org”. Sorry.)
I think we have most of the solutions we need. Just enforce the laws. Of course, more and better schools are, in my opinion, the key to reducing violence and crime.
I have what some people call an “arsenal” (although to me it’s just a collection), yet I’m one of the most nonviolent people I know. But I was brought up in an environment of good schools, and hatred (ethnic, religious, class, etc.) was either not an issue or it was discouraged.
The problem I see with the anti-gun believers is that they want to be completely safe. Ain’t gonna happen. I think that in some ways, people are too safe. They’ve forgotten how to fend for themselves, to take personal responsibility for their actions. Since most people aren’t personally affected by violence, they think that getting rid of it altogether is simple: Get rid of guns and there will be no violence. (Hyperbole, JSYK.)
You’re right, mangeorge; guns are only tools. The real solution, and I think the only solution, is to teach people not to be violent. Give them hope of a productive life. Give them other tools that will help them in life, such as the ability to read, calculate and reason. Teach them some sort of ethics. My own upbringing was non-religious; but I am a very ethical, moral person. We don’t need God in our schools. We need to teach people from an early age to get along with one another.
Okay, I’m getting too preachy here. I’ll stop.
“I must leave this planet, if only for an hour.” – Antoine de St. Exupéry
Yes, enforcement. Enforcement of the laws would go a long way to reduce the public opposition to guns. But not just enforcement of laws pertaining to criminals with guns, but but also of those laws pertaining to negligence of gun owners and dealers.
According to the claims of gun proponents, and I don’t doubt these claims, most crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns. Where do these guns come from? Stolen? Stolen from who, and under what circumstances? I don’t know. I’ve seen guys leave guns in those racks in their pickups while they’re in the bar having a drink! That’s irresponsible, and so is leaving a gun in any easily accessible place while it’s not under your direct control.
If a kid picks up a gun that you’ve left lying on the bed it’s your negligence, not the kids.
A gun is just a tool, but owning one carries a much higher responsibility than owning, let’s say, a hammer.
There are a lot of illegal guns out there, and I don’t believe for a second that they were stolen from responsible gun owners (and distributors) who took precautions to keep their guns secure.
So where did all these illegal guns come from? I don’t know that either.
Sure, professional criminals will always have guns, but we can’t make it a lot harder for petty criminals and the like to get them?
Peace,
mangeorge (I rant, therefore I am.)
I have to take my hat off to you! I gather, from your comments, that you are not necessarily in the “Gun Camp” shall we say, yet you present the most balanced attitude I’ve ever seen from that side of the fence.
I agree that we do have adequate laws on the books, both at the federal and state levels, and that simple enforcement of those laws will go a long way to addressing the problem.
I have guns in the house. I also have children in the house as well. I have gone through tremendous effort and expense to guarantee that the two will never mix in a dangerous way. There is much in the way of technology to insure that I am the only individual who can operate those particular machines–it ain’t cheap, but I see nothing less as being appropriate.
I do support additional laws directed at negligent parents who don’t shoulder the responsibility of firearms ownership. Lord knows how many deaths could have been prevented if gun owning parents had simply been possessed of foresight.
–Kalél TheHungerSite.com
“If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.”
“Well, there was that thing with the Cheese-Wiz…but I’m feeling much better now!” – John Astin, Night Court
I own guns and I have no problem with people owning guns but I don’t see why people need assault rifles with 30 round clips, armor piercing shells and night scopes just to go plinking beer cans with. I wish there were some sort of good psychological test one had to take before buying a gun to determine the ‘nut’ level and keep the seller from completing the sale.
One thing which separates a civilian from a police officer is that the officer is trained not to fire unless he has to. A civilian will probably fire much sooner, not taking into consideration where those bullets are going to go if he misses.
The cost of guns are going up, but that doesn’t seem to stop people. I bought one of my guns, used, years ago for $65. The same gun, used, now sells for $125.
As for buying guns, it’s pretty easy to hit several small shops using fake ID, which is pretty easy to get, go through the checks, get the weapons, junk the ID and sell them off to unsavory citizens. Plus, many gun shows always have some dealers willing to sell to you with just a brief look at your ID and a bill of sale. The best way for them is to take a down payment and when the show is over, you meet them somewhere and exchange the rest of the money for the guns. Laws still do not cover a private sale.
I once traded a couple of single shot shotguns for a boat, motor and trailer. Plus, some cops ‘confiscate’ guns from people they check, who aren’t supposed to have them and they let the guy go so long as he doesn’t make a fuss over the gun. Then that gun is sold later by the officer to someone else.
I know an officer who has a magnificent collection of switchblades gained that way, including one that I can only describe as a ‘switch machete.’
I don’t think that we need to ban gun-toting idiots outright. What we need to do is to sentence criminals to longer jail terms if they have a gun-toting idiot on their person, train civilians in the proper use of their gun-toting idiots, and manufacture trigger locks so that gun-toting idiots won’t go off by accident. Besides, isn’t the right to keep and bear gun-toting idiots in the Constitution somewhere?
Heck is where you go when you don’t believe in Gosh.
I think the whole thing is EDUCATION.The Younger the better. As in anything else if a person is taught to respect something or someone for that matter they will be more careful.
When I was a kid I was a Boyscout.
I can hear you already
It was a different time but we learned things like how to use an ax. Now that is a tool.
How to build a fire.No more than three matches.
How to shoot a rifle. Birdshot at clay targets
How to survive.
The kids nowdays do not get that stuff.
Even my son who made Eagle did not learn some of the things I did.
I think that the problem with most of todays troubled kids is that they are afraid.Thats the reason you carry a gun in NYC or LA .They don’t know how to cope with the problems they persieve(sp) as owerwelming.
Teach them to survive and you make good Men and Women.
You probably don’t see why people own Porsches just to go driving with. Why have private airplanes when there are professionals who can fly us places more safely? It’s a matter of choice. One of the things I like about “plinking” is loading up a 30-rd. magazine and shooting my AR-15. There are two critical items needed if for people who enjoy this: a 30-rd. mag. and an AR-15. Some people like to shoot black-powder muskets, others like to shoot shotguns. You may enjoy shooting a single-shot .22. I prefer military-style rifles. I need a military-style rifle to enjoy my hobby of shooting military-style rifles, just as a cap-and-ball enthusiast needs a cap-and-ball revolver to enjoy shooting cap-and-ball revolvers.
In California, private sales have been illegal for almost a decade. If you want to trade a shotgun for a boat, as you say, you have to go to a dealer with your trading partner. He’ll have to produce identification, which will be checked, and then wait 10 days before he can pick up the gun. If you want to trade a handgun, he’ll also have to pass a written test and have a card permitting him to buy a handgun (unless he’s current or former military or police).
As far as using false I.D., you say it as if it’s legal. It isn’t. We have laws to deal with people who illegally buy guns; they’re just not often enforced.
And banning military-style rifles would stop this… how?
I am a responsible gun-owner. I resent people saying that I shouldn’t be able to enjoy one of my hobbies, just because a tiny fraction of a percent of a tiny fraction of the population uses military-style firearms illegally.
