And the cycle… [URL=“http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=7089175”]continues
How are those links relevant to any of this thread?
The first one was a shooting over a drug deal - something that happens all over this country, all the time, and would be almost completely eliminated if we reformed our drug policy. The second was an assault and stabbing that didn’t even involve any gunfire until the police shot him (after he attacked a police officer with a pipe.)
Those incidents have jackshit to do with any single thing being discussed in this thread. Jackshit. They prove nothing.
Maybe I should change my name to Jack Shit. Just another example of the gun… if you don’t see the connection any more clearly than is evident an d luminous… senseless death upon senseless death, then I cannot remove the blinders.
What the hell are you talking about?
s/Jack/Dumb/
The senseless deaths here are the issue, not the means by which those deaths were achieved. You are hopelessly naive if you think our societal problem with violence will be solved by taking away one class of weapons that are relatively easy to manufacture, desired by all governments and law enforcement organizations, and are easy to smuggle.
Look, I’m against gun bans because they don’t work and can’t work to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and tyrants. I couldn’t agree more that we have a societal problem with violence, I just think your methods of dealing with it are ridiculous.
Be against gun bans for any other reason you like. There are lots of good ones. Don’t claim you’re against them because they don’t work. They work just fine in other countries.
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The Daily Mail’s raison d’etre is scaring people. It’s literally all they do.
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Even assuming that their figures are accurate, compare the number of per capita gun crimes in the UK to the US numbers (use any source you like). They could go on rising at that rate for 30 years and the rate would still be lower.
My gut says that’s a very misleading article. Hear me out.
They say “The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.”
Then later they say “The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent.”
[emphases added in both cases]
They never say what a “gun crime” or “firearm offence” is. In the UK, simply possessing a gun can be a crime. Are they counting those? What’s a gun crime according to the Daily Mail?
At any rate, the U.S. still kicks her personified ass (which is Leeds) in gun crime.
Now I’m off to read the article about the beatiful woman covering her boobs with pastries, which is the real reason the Daily Mail exists. It’s sort of an inverse Playboy.
Like anything else, there’s a difference between a reduction and an elimination of violence. When people claim that a gun ban is going to magically stop all gun crime ever, then I feel free to say “no, that’s not what’s going to happen.”
I could easily have been clearer, but I don’t admittedly put much effort into arguing with devilsknew–I’ve almost literally had better luck debating a brick wall.
And what exactly do you believe my methods are for dealing with it? I haven’t espoused any policy, let alone a gun ban. Never once.
Just a question Zeriel…Are you, or are you not, a member of the NRA or have ever been a member?
Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?
Not a member. I don’t really hold with “no regulation” positions, either.
Okay, if you’re not for gun bans, then what point exactly are you trying to make here?
Well, then I guess that makes me the communist! Or the socialist to your communist, at least. I kmow a lot of people that are NRA members and I have actually belonged to a muzzleoaders association.
I just believe in common sense.
In the matter at hand, one gun nut was taken by another gun nut who then took himself. No non-gun nut was harmed. Therefore all you haters and socialists are banning up the wrong tree.
Can’t I try to save them from themselves?
Nope. That’s the problem with socialism, taking away patriots’ freedom to make decisions for themselves. The government has no business in the gunfights of the people.
I was kind of hoping for a policy position, not a vague platitude.
I’m noncommittal as of yet, I haven’t seen any common sense here.
Blah blah blah. You haven’t shown any either, you’ve just spouted vague bullshit and irrelevant anecdotes.
This is kinda like a great debate in the pit, so I can safely say I’m ignoring your trivialities until you come up with a position and some data supporting.