Diogenes the Cynic
[Moderator Hat ON]
Diogenes, if you want to say gun owners have tiny dicks, do it in the Pit. (Unless you have cites to back you up, of course.)
[Moderator Hat OFF]
Very well said.
Then you follow with this…
From your previous post (bolding mine)-
both numbers are small and they probably closely offset each other. From the POV of society they should both be ignored.
You don’t seem to see a problem that needs to be fixed. But ask for a cure.
enipla,
Ah, I thought it was clear from my past comments. I’ll spell it out.
The significant public health problem associated with guns is not the nut job going postal with a scary looking weapon. It is not the home invader killing you or waiting in the backseat of your car. It is not kids getting a hold of guns and killing themselves by accident. It is that people who are not legally entitled to the privlege of gun ownership (minors, criminals, gang bangers, etc.) are getting ahold of them in large numbers. Through diversion of once legal weapons into their hands. And throughout blighted regions of this land, where gangs hold court and the best economic prospects are often percieved to be in the drug business, guns are amplifying the damage of violent crime.
But you see selling reform of practices (which includes but is certainly not restricted to gun control) to reduce this highly significant cause of death, especially death among teen-agers and young adults, is a public relations no-go. Mr. and Ms. Public frankly doesn’t give a shit about them, because they neither make the headlines nor are in their neighborhoods.
Both sides instead trot out their respective boogeymen, trying to frighten more people into each of their camps. And little good is actually done. We are either all too afraid to try, or too apathetic, and I’m not sure which. But there is no political will to do anything meaningful about it.
Between 700,000 and 8,000,000 people die per year from an anaphylactic reaction to pink bunnies? Cite please.
Between 700,000 and 8,000,000 people have their lives saved per year by virtue of carrying a gun? Cite please.
DSeid -
More laws don’t seem to get guns of the hands of gang bangers.
You’re a doctor, and have more exposure to the problems that guns may cause. I’m a programmer and live in a very rural part of Colorado.
We have different perspectives to be sure. In my mind, the gun control folks have a ‘cure’ that is looking for a disease.
Well, it maybe didn’t save my life, but a black bear broke into my shed 4 weeks ago. I keep my trash (never more than a weeks worth) in the shed away from the house.
The bear would not leave. Finally, a shot from a .357 changed his mind (I did not shoot the bear).
Front page of the Summit Daily News a couple of days ago showed the hole that a bear put in a garage door. Not the passage door, not around the edge. This bear went right through the garage door.
I’m not afraid, or I would not live here. I do realize that we have some big ass wildlife here. I do my best to minimize MY impact on them. And we live together.
I don’t really care about statistics. Argue as much as you like about the need for a gun. The anti-gun folks continue to show that the don’t now a thing about guns or the people that own them.
But you see- you didn’t include any of these "opt outs’ in the prior TWO times you stated this. You often posit your opinion as FACT. :rolleyes:
Note that you don’t include hobby shooters like Olympic target shooters or trap shooter in your list of “opt outs” up there, so I guess THEY are still cowards. :rolleyes: :dubious:
How about a dude who uses a gun to defend himself from another guy who attacks him with a deadly weapon? Should he fight back with only his “fists”? :dubious: :rolleyes:
What interest me is that not a single one of my aquaintance has ever been in a dangerous situation in which a personal weapon would have been the slightest use, nor have I. Yet most people who claim guns are needed for personal protection will cite personal histories, their own or some friend’s, where a gun has saved someone from death or other such fate as might have befallen them.
There is the possibility that the gun-for-defense supporters are so because they have had such an experience. However, there a lot of such folks in the US and I’m skeptical about there being such a large number of attempted personal attacks.
I am not stating that guns are “needed” for personal protection in any large numbers. What I WAS asking- is that in the (at least you seem to admit there’s a few ) cases where a gun was needed for self-protection against an armed foe- was that usage “cowardly”? I say not. Diogenes seems to say “yes”. :rolleyes:
Firearms ownership, despite what you’ve been led to believe by Sarah Brady’s kind, is not a privilege. It’s a right, enumerated and protected in the Bill of Rights. It does not cease to be a right because certain people such as criminals cannot legally exercise it.
From Kleck and Gertz, the lowest number I could find was 764,036 and the largest was 3,609,682 for the year 1994.
Kleck and Gertz aren’t the most firearm friendly of authors, and even they found more than half a million defensive gun uses per year. This far outweighs murder, suicide and accident with firearms.
Oh, I don’t agree with Diogenes on this. My diagnosis is overactive imagination and too much John Wayne. Possible subsidiary inputs; overactive thyroid and too much adreneline.
With a touch of Charlatan Hestonitis to boot.
I’m cooled. I didn’t realize that I had three recent warnings (I recall one on another subject). I guess I didn’t realize it was a moderator?
Anyway, I’ll comply, and I apologise for screwing up.
I’ve never been attacked (except for the occasional Black Bear, I haven’t been attacked, I uhhh, try to keep it that way). But I think it would be foolish to think it could not happen.
My wife and I live in a spot that any trouble we may have has to be dealt with by us. Sheriff, Fire and ambulance are at least a half hour away. If they find the house.
I own guns. Paranoid? No. Practical? Yes.
So be it.
The anti-gun folks seem to think that gun owners cower behind their doors waiting for some sort of attack. That’s not the case. At all.
Every gun owner I know are careful and cautious about their guns. Without exception.
Paranoid? Not a bit. Safety first? Always.
I own a double-barreled, 12-gauge shotgun and had a .270 deer rifle that I gave to my son. I’m not anti-gun. I just think the idea that you need to keep a loaded gun in the house and at the ready to repel human home invaders verges on the bizarre. Out in the woods in bear country? Entirely different situation.
I always heard, “God created men. Col. Colt made them equal.”
I guess I’d just rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
I didn’t expect someone to break into my home, ever, but it happened. It’ll probably never happen again, but if it does, I know that I can defend myself.
What’s the big deal?
Where do you live? I’d like to consider moving there if it’s that safe.
Within this year - the last 6.5 months, just 2004 - my elderly neighbors were burgled at gunpoint while they were at home in broad daylight. I had an intruder in my locked, fenced backyard. Another house in my neighborhood was broken into at night and valuables were stolen (while they slept). And a few other houses were entered and burgularized while the tenants were away during the day.
I live in an area of one-acre lots, mostly middle class, kinda on the boundry with the “country.”
I think a loaded gun in the house, kept in an easy-access safe, is one way to solve the problem. I opt for a good security system (which stopped my prowler and chased him away), for now, at least.
So what is the answer and is there actually a problem that needs an answer?
I get very confused with the issue of guns in the US. Some people seem to be saying that there isn’t a problem with gun violence, as long as you own a gun for personal protection. But if you need to have a gun to protect yourself in the first place, does that not indicate that there is a problem?
Should all people therefore be issued with guns or be encouraged to buy guns?
If the real problem is illegal ownership and illegal use of guns, why is nothing being done about it?
And to those who spout ‘personal freedom’ as a response to gun ownership - if you need to rely on a gun to feel safe, from where I’m standing, you ain’t got much freedom.
FWIW Snakespirit, from someone who has been following the discussion but not participating, Diogenes doesn’t come across to me as:
“lying, fighting unfair and just puffing up his ego”
or
“just bullying his personal opinions” and I think he does debate.