A long time ago a read a really interesting article on guns in movies. It was about the different kinds of guns that were used in films, and why they were picked. One in particular I remember was the kind of gun that produces a nifty flash when fired, it was favored because of the great visual. I’ve never been able to find that article again, or one similar, does anyone know of anything like that?
Thought this one deserved a bump—now I’m curious, too.
There are a couple types of firearms used in movies. Blanks work well in shotguns and revolvers, but automatics need to be modified. Some machine guns in films were (are?) equipped with gas. There was (is?) a device that would ignite the gas so that it looked like the machine gun was firing. As I understand it, they were connected by hoses to an acetylene tank.
Recently we made a blank-firing gun for our film. Since it’s an automatic, it needed surgery. Without a bullet, a blank cannot generate enough pressure to work the slide. We plugged the breech end of the barrel with a set screw that had a hole bored through it. Guess what? It still didn’t work the action – and we started with the smallest hole in the set screw. Turns out the gun needed surgery on the locking mechanism. (I’m not going to go into detail about that here.) After testing it under safe conditions we ended up with a Beretta that will now fire only blanks (unless we replace some parts). It functions like a live firing pistol. The flash it produces is very impressive indeed on film. Next to the blank-firing pistol, one firing live rounds looks very anemic. The flash is like four or five times as big on the blank gun.
Another type of blank-firing gun is made by a Japanese company. Lots of smoke, and the actions work just like on the real things. Only they tend to have sparks at the breech. Still, it’s about the only way you can have a realistic machine gun that spits out the brass.
There are gas-powered airsoft guns that work the action, but don’t produce any smoke or fire. But you do get the moving slide and they’re much safer than a blank-firing gun. Smoke, flame and spent brass can be added digitally.
Or it could be propane. Here is a company that makes propane-powered machine guns.
The Judge Dredd gun from the movie was a Beretta pistol set to burn off the entire clip of blanks in one shot. (Yes, you can turn almost any semi-automatic pistol into a full automatic. It doesn’t work very well.)
The reasons FN P-90s are used on the Stargate SG-1 shows? They eject the brass downwards so it doesn’t get into the shot.
That’s all I have for trivia.
The Beretta M93R looks like a 92 and has a three-shot burst mode. That can empty a mag pretty quickly. It also has a flip-down handle in front of the trigger guard.
I’m just recalling the prop guy saying they did it that way so they could get the huuuuge burst of flame, Johnny… The thing is, I think it was in an article in… Car and Driver? where they reviewed the SUV from the movie.
[on topic, but mostly pointless]
Not much to add other than there is a scene at the end of Rambo where he’s shooting up the HQ. You can clearly see the M-60 ejecting 7.62 blanks, which have a distinct shape. Earlier in the movie in a downed helicopter, John preps a LAW rocket (US weapon) and then the scene changes perspective and he fires a RPG (USSR weapon). Incidentally, the RPG would have been the correct choice in the confined quarters.
[/ot, bmp]
I saw a blank-firing RPG on a model guns website. Kinda cool, but I think I’d make one with a short-duration model rocket engine.
Incidentally, blank guns can be dangerous even if they’re not loaded. We were shooting a scene in an alley the other night. We didn’t have a permit to fire blanks, since we didn’t think we’d be using any. Turns out we kinda needed to, so we used an airsoft gun and we’ll add the flash in post. Anyway, we had the (unloaded – I checked it and the actor checked it) – and there were no rounds of any kind on the set) Beretta on the set. After a take the gun was passed to a PA who was acting as our site security. (He’s somewhat familiar with guns, but he shouldn’t have had it.) I retrieved it from him and checked it once again to ensure it was unloaded. Everyone was tired, including me. I racked back the slide, and somehow got my left forefinger in the ejection port. When I hit the slide release the slide slammed forward and locked…
… With the fleshy part of my finger, aft of the tip joint, caught inside! :eek: I said to the PA, or anyone else around, ‘Would someone please open this? Quickly?’ We got my finger out, and someone laughed that I was so calm about it. I have what looks like a tiny (9mm) bite mark on my finger. There was some blood, which concerned the AD because she’s uneasy about such things. (She seems to think that everyone in the world is infected with some sort of disease. I dripped some blood on a piece of paper, and she cleaned it up with Betadine solution. I was just going to wipe it on my trousers.) I carry a first-aid kit with me wherever I go; one in the back of the Jeep, and an identical one attached to the outside of my grip bag. Finally got to use it! 
So a blank-firing gun can bite, even if they truly are unloaded. Especially when people are tired.
Johnny, you might be curious to note that the Green Gas that most Airsoft pistols use is actually propane, with a touch of silicon lubricant and a scent added. I have heard and read about people adding sparking mechanisms to their airsoft pistols to ignite the gas used to fire the bb.
Of course, this messes up the “ballistics” of the bb, but you get an impressive flame effect. I imagine someone with some machining skills and access to even a little bit of pyrotechnic knowledge could make it safer than the kids doing it in their parents garage.
Heh heh heh.
That was an early experiment. And there was only the single experiment. We tried to ignite the gas (not knowing if it was flammable – it didn’t say on the can) at the muzzle. We got some fire at the breech. Hence, only the one attempt.
Given the danger of an explosion, I would not recommend trying to modify an airsoft gun in that way. It would require a foolproof valving system fabricated by someone who is familiar with flammable gasses. (See previous link.) For the modified real gun Pard and I have over four decades of firearms experience between us, and he is a trained machinist. It was much safer, and more impressive on film, to use actual blanks in a modified real gun. And we did a lot of testing under safe conditions until we were satisfied that it was safe enough to put into the hands of an actor.
Oh, yeah blank guns can kill people.
Just to clarify, blank guns fire only blanks. Real guns can also fire blank cartridges.
Although real automatic or semi-automatic guns must be modified to fire blanks.
To activate the slides but not necessarily to fire a blank round.
Not trying to be snarky **Johnny **, really.
Hope the shoot is going well.
This would be questionable legally. Converting any weapon to a machinegun unless you have the correct set of federal licenses is a good way to get some enormous fines and possibly a stay in the stoney lonesome. Such machineguns as are used in movies are owned by rental agencies that do have the proper licensing. Even if the gun in question was also modified to fire blanks, as far as BATF is concerened once a gun = always a gun.
Right. But there are a lot of people out there who would notice if the slide didn’t work. Yes, an unmodified gun (to be clear, I’m talking semi-autos) can fire a blank. But a filmmaker would have to plan the shot carefully so as not to give it away. (I’m always noticing things like when someone runs out of ammo and hte slide stays back.)
This is true, but I didn’t read anything in the OP about converting a gun into a machine gun. It seems to be about how someone either modified a gun to create a masive flash (e.g., by installing a gas system) or came up with some ‘hand-rolled’ blanks that produce more of a flash than commercially-available blanks.
Johnny,
I was commenting on this post by E-Sabbath.
Sorry I was unclear.
Memory 1, logic 0!
Apparently, they did diddle the internals of a Beretta to make the pistol run full-auto. Not the most difficult thing in the world, autoloaders will occasionally do it on their own due to parts wear. I’m just curious whether they complied with the labyrinth of legalities involved. Manufacture and ownership of machineguns became VERY tightly restricted during the Reagan administration. Essentially, there is a limited number of pre-existing machineguns that can be bought and sold by individuals. Newly manufactured machineguns, like the Berettas in the link, can be possessed only by a properly licensed manufacturer or a properly licensed machinegun dealer.