Fine, whatever. That woman was in the wrong, regardless of her past experiences. If you’re that frightened of the world at large, you should have someone walk you to your car. The solution is, “every man’s a potential rapist!”
I was actually headed in the same direction. If the woman had been wearing a visible holstered gun, which we can all agree is a much deadlier weapon than pepper spray, the incident would have been entirely unremarkable. What is the particular problem with openly carrying non-lethal pepper spray in a high crime environment? How does that translate to an insult upon one’s character?
She was wrong to have in her possession an item which is used in the defense of a physical attack? And the solution for you is “don’t mitigate your risk with defensive weapons, just don’t go anywhere alone!”
Yeah, okay there sparky.
ETA: The thing is, every man IS a potential rapist. Just like every person is a potential mugger. And every dog is a potential biter. Why is it wrong, especially if you have been victimized before, to mitigate your risk of being victimized by carrying pepper spray with you? Holding it in your hand even? Pepper spray isn’t a knife, so stop trying to make it sound like she pulled a switchblade on him in an elevator. We tell women all the time to learn self defense, take pepper spray with you jogging, don’t walk into parking garages by yourself if you can avoid it. But the second she does something like that, it’s all “look how fucking scared of the ENTIRE WORLD she is! Why don’t you just go STAY HOME and have a chaperone if you need to go anywhere if you’re so AFRAID ALL THE TIME!”
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Chimera said it was an employee-only parking garage. So NOT a high crime environment.
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Can we not bring guns into this? But if we have to, I disagree with your statement. Open carrying a gun at your place of business is NOT OK. Unremarkable is the last word I’d use.
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The woman and Chimera are the only people on the elevator. If she pulls out pepper spray, it’s with an intent to spray him. Also NOT OK if he’s done nothing wrong.
Most public safety officers would recommend being aware of one’s environment and taking steps to protect oneself and one’s assets. Locking doors, carrying keys in a protective manner, walking with a strong, assertive pace, staying off the cell phone and arming oneself with legal, lethal or non-lethal weapons of self-defense in high crime environs are all approved methods of preventing and avoiding crime. Both women and men are coached on this regardless of age, physical stature, or level of fearfulness. It isn’t to protect ourselves against you; it’s to protect ourselves against any unknown and potential threat. It’s not personal.
When you are a weak, frail old man who must travel in high crime areas, will you carry a cane or umbrella, and if so, will you be prepared to use either as a weapon of self-defense should you feel threatened? Just curious. It’s easy for a strong young man to view weaker people with disdain. But you will not always be in such a superior position to look down on others. You will age; you will weaken.
Jesus Christ, this is ridiculous. This thread has taken an ugly turn. I didn’t realize women were so delicate that describing situations where they were acting openly bigoted is equal to being a rape apologist.
I didn’t realize anytime a woman acted in the interest of her own safety, she was being “bigoted”.
Who said that? How in the world do you draw “rape apologist” from smart self-defense measures in high crime environments? You’re a little more defensive than elevator woman at this point. Seems like you’d relate.
No, we are not. This is hatemongering.
Fear of a group doesn’t allow one to forgo all the niceties of civilization in the name of making yourself feel safe.
Circling back to the OP;
Fear that some random guy sitting in the park while you’re there doesn’t give you the right to criminally harass him by calling the police to have them roust him.
Fear that a male teacher will rape or molest your child doesn’t give you the right to demand special rules for him that don’t apply to female teachers.
Fear that some guy with a photo name badge on a private elevator might do something doesn’t give you the right to visually threaten him.
We are all given equal protection under the law.
Women do not have special rights to ignore the law in situations where (their mental illness causes them) to fear all men, just so they can “feel safe”.
Men are not evil. Men are not monsters from whom all women and children need to be protected.
Yes, there is crime in this world, and injustice. But adding another layer of monstrous bigotry and injustice to the cake doesn’t suddenly make the world fair and just.
Holding a pepper spray in your hand behind your purse is against the law? Fear is a “mental illness”?
Good thing nobody has said any of those things. Being cautious around people you don’t know is not “monstrous bigotry” and it isn’t harming you in any real way. So some lady was afraid of you in an elevator, BFD. Nobody’s trying to make the world fair and just, they are literally just trying to take precautions against being a victim. Similarly, being Super Offended is not you standing up for the truth and rightness of the world. You stumbled on a lady who may or may not have been victimized in the past who was afraid. Stop pretending like either of you was harmed by this interaction.
Go back and read this thread and every other one on the topic.
How about you quote me the relevant parts where people say “men are evil monsters”. I’ll wait.
You said all men are potential rapists. That is utterly false. You are paranoid and deluded, and are using those qualities to excuse women threatening any man they randomly encounter.
All men ARE potential rapists. I didn’t say “all men are going to rape someone”. Just like all women are potential mothers. All people are potential murderers. All dogs are potential biters. I don’t walk around all day thinking every man I see wants to rape me. But nobody “threatened” anybody in those encounters, however I don’t think the behavior of a woman holding a pepper spray in an elevator or a woman crossing the street alone is threatening. Clearly we should be, as women, more aware of our behavior and modify it so men don’t feel threatened by it in any way.
False. Most men are not psychologically capable of doing so.
No, you said they potentially would. In practice, it’s the same thing, and you encourage women to act like any given man wants to rape them.
Also false. Some are infertile, and some are too old.
Also, obviously, false.
This may actually be true. Interesting that you think men, and people in general, are the same as dogs. This is, like everything else in your post, false.
Maybe not, but you write as though you do, and you defend women for acting like they do.
Then you’re wrong. Brandishing a weapon at someone is a threatening act - and brandishing means nothing more than letting them see that you possess it. The women, in this particular instance, threatened the man purely because of his gender. That is unacceptable - as it would be if the genders were reversed, or if it were done for any other reason. Threatening people is, in general, wrong.
Correct, and men should act in such a way that they don’t threaten women. Or other men, or people of any other sex, gender, or combination thereof. As, obviously, should women.
Now, acting in a way that is not actually threatening, but nonetheless causes an irrational fear in someone is not illegal, nor should it be, but where possible its something to avoid - hence many of the replies to this thread. People should also recognise when their fears are irrational, and get over themselves.
Threatening someone directly, whether with a weapon or without, is unacceptable, and illegal. You may only defend yourself against an actual threat - that is, not someone who happens to be sharing your space, or even talking to you (assuming that talk is not overtly threatening), even if you don’t what they say, or that they’re saying it. That’s even true if they’re male.
Fantastic. You can tell these men from others just by looking at them? No? So being cautious in general I guess is a good principle.
Again, I never said “every man wants to rape you”. I said any man is a potential rapist to a woman. She doesn’t know you from Adam. Which is why taking general precautions is a good thing. Would it make you feel better to say anyone is a potential criminal? Crime victim? Would that soothe your feelings?
I never equated men to dogs, you idiot. What, you’re not going to tell me “some dogs don’t have teeth and others don’t even have mouths at all so they can’t be potential biters!nah!”
Oh Jesus Christ. Holding pepper spray in your hand behind your purse is not brandishing a weapon for fuck’s sake. Stop pretending like this woman threw her hand in front of his face and threatened to spray him. It’s a pathetic twisting of the term “threaten”.
The thing is, if you’re alone in a parking garage with someone you don’t know, being cautious is not irrational.
Again. She did not threaten him, just like he did not threaten her. She may have felt threatened by his presence, and he may have felt threatened by the presence of pepper spray, but no one directly threatened the other person.
You’re actually suprised ? 
Guy’s. If y’all would just learn to be attractive you wouldn’t have to deal with this shit.
Sadly, no. This board is too predictable sometimes.
I’m not going to do that really annoying break-down-the-entire-post-line-by-line thing you’re doing for this and I’m not going to pretend I can say things are TRUE and FALSE as easily as you’re doing because it simply isn’t that easy. Instead I’m going to sincerely suggest reading The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.
He has made his life work studying human behavior and one of the first thing he teaches is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming. When you start trying to separate people into people who are capable of terrible things and people who aren’t you’ve already lost. You’re more or less (by simply doing that) stating that people who murder or rape or molest are “monsters” (or whatever bogeyman word you’d like to use) and that is ridiculous. That type of thinking is childlike in that it makes it so we assume that if only monsters are capable of such things then we don’t have to worry about “regular” people. So then that means we should be able to tell who those monsters are since most people aren’t capable, right? Wrong. Seriously, the book is an incredible and important read for anyone. I can’t recommend it enough.
Ah yes, I was wondering when someone would trot out this ol chestnut. Congrats to you, I’m surprised you didn’t bust this one out in your recent thread regarding your male bonding with your teenage son. You really have no idea how offensive you’re being and somehow I doubt you even care.
First, I admire that you’re trying to discuss this in this thread at all. It’s almost impossible to have this type of discussion on this board for lots of reasons, but I really give you credit that you’re trying. Some of the most recent comments make me hope you’ll give up and leave them to their ignorance because you’ve got to be feeling like you need a shower after this latest romp.
Still, after mentioning de Becker’s book earlier in my comment I wanted to follow up with your comment I quoted. His belief is like yours. It’s no fun to offend someone but so what that someone walks away offended by a stranger because she was wary of them? His belief is that any man who can’t set his own feelings aside to realize that some people have more to fear than a bruised ego then he isn’t worth wasting your time worrying about. Something to consider before replying more here.