And if he had previously been mugged by a woman at that bus stop, she shouldn’t take offense to him whipping out a switchblade, “just in case” ? Or again, if we switched gender for ethnicity, or sexual orientation. Just a baseless case of bruised ego?
a) can’t it be both?
b) I think the way both situations were presented, the women were being overzealous in their caution and caused some medium-level offense to the men they guarded against.
Your point that these women were previously traumatized is… an obvious one. Clearly someone who would react in such an extreme has more cause than the average woman. However, why is it so hard to concede that those actions can and do offend the men they guard against? I think overall the tone of this thread isn’t “These bitches be trippin” but rather “It sucks that pedo’s and rapists have irreparably tainted my ability to interact with women and children.”
I agree with your assessment. It does suck for men who aren’t rapists to be subjected to the fear response women take when they are alone. You know who it also sucks for? It sucks a lot more for the women who have been raped who fear similar situations. I understand the men are offended, but frankly they can get over it. Her fear response isn’t causing them any actual harm. Nobody pulled a switch blade on anybody. She held her keys in a defensive stance and hid them from his sight. Let’s try and keep the offense to what actually happened and not other things which also might have happend in an alternate remembering of events. They’re offended that she has pepper spray in a parking garage while she’s alone with a stranger? His offense is low on the list of priorities, the top one being her safety. And don’t try and switch this into a “well if we substitute race for gender here, look, you’re suddenly a racist!”. If you substitute a lot of things for other things, we are talking about something entirely different.
Now, I think this thread has gone downhill and I don’t usually respond, but I do want to point out that this is not at all mathematically correct. Even if 100% of child sex abuse cases were reported, the percentage of men that “are child molestors” is going to be way higher than this because they live for more than 1 year. IE, once they have abused one child, they are a “child molestor” for the rest of their life.
IE, back of the envelope:
If avg child sex abuser is say, 35. Means that on average they would live another 40 years, so if no child sex abusers were repeat offenders/abused multiple children, as many as 12.4% (.31% * 40 years of abuse cases) of males in New Hampshire could be “child molesters” at any one time. Now many sex abusers have multiple victims, but clearly there is much under reporting of child sex abuse as well. Still, .31% is almost certainly an absurdly low estimate.
Pulling a weapon on a stranger for nothing makes you something less than safe.
I could have called the police and reported that I had been threatened by someone brandishing a weapon. I could have filed a complaint with HR that an employee threatened me with a weapon on company property and that I intended to take action regarding the incident. Now odds are the police would (at most) only lecture her on it and nothing else, but Police Report + Complaint = Company has some problems if they do nothing.
Jesus christ. Okay, yeah if you want to file a complaint that a woman in an elevator clutching some pepper spray “brandished a weapon” and “threatened”, you’re free to do that. We’re also free to think you’re blowing that situation wildly out of proportion to prove that this woman had no reason to be afraid of you, but in reality, you were terrified of an encounter with you. :rolleyes:
I account every person equal, and expect us all to be equal before the law. In this I hold every person to the same standards of behavior and personal responsibility. It doesn’t matter who pulls out a weapon or what their personal reasons for it are. They should be accounted just the same, and held responsible for their actions.
But of course, you clearly believe that women are inferior, should not be held to the same standards as men, and should be afforded different rights.
So as men, we’re not allowed to be offended? We’re not allowed to be indignant? In some cases, we’re not allowed to be afraid - even a little bit? Every action a woman takes to protect herself is completely justified and every reaction men have is an unreasonable overreaction?
There have been dozens of experience reported here where men are reticent to interact with children and women for the lone reason of public opinion. Steophan can’t even go to the movies. Teachers are consciously keeping doors open, fathers are reinforced to be aloof and standoffish, etc.
Again, I’m not saying it’s an outrage, but to echo what **Drewtwo **said… since when is “being sad” an overreaction? I’m sure Chimera is losing sleep over the interaction but it clearly made enough of an impression on him to last 23 years. it hurts. Not to the extreme of a rape but that doesn’t make it negligible.
Frankly I find it a bit insulting that you’re marginalizing male opinions with the rape trump card. Also I find it disheartening that the women on this tread have very little empathy much less sympathy for the situation.
You *could * call the police to report you feel threatened each time you notice that someone is legally carrying a weapon, wearing a hammer, has the outline of a knife in his or her pocket, is carrying chopsticks (with or without Chinese take-out), or is wearing pins in her hair. If only you had X-ray vision, you could identify all manner of pointy, sharp, or potentially explosive or caustic objects in the purses, backpacks, and pockets of men, women, and children. You could report all manner of perceived defensive behavior or tools as a threat.
And if you make a habit of the above, I’ll bet the police will inform you that holding pepper spray in a parking garage does not equal brandishing a weapon. Hell, it’s not even an insult. It’s behavior that most police departments recommend to reduce or prevent crime.
Now in the scenario of the lady in the lift she could certainly argue that she felt threatened and was only preemptively defending herself but it could also be argued that the person who posted that incident was a victim of an assault.
I certainly wouldn’t be happy if someone threatened to pepper spray me for no reason.
Judging from some of the replies to this thread, I suppose it’d be okay for my cousin the air marshal to unbutton the holster of his gun whenever a Middle Easterner boards the plane.
You can be offended. But what harm is actually being caused to you by a woman being careful and cautious of her surroundings?
They can have their opinions and offense. I’m just saying that when you’re essentially asking women to change their behavior, which is a fear response to a situation, because you are “offended” that is going too far. People do things to make themselves feel safer and more comfortable in uncertain situations. Just because the situation wouldn’t make YOU uncomfortable is not substantial enough to call her out for “overreacting” when she tries to address her discomfort.
The unfortunate situation is that any man is a potential rapist, and while all the fine gentlemen in this thread might not be, you don’t look different from an actual one. In most circumstances if he is one, you’re going to find out that fact too late to mitigate your risk.
And the unfortunate part about being a rape victim is that you’re going to have your behavior called into question if it happens, like a world full of Captain Hindsights asking “Well why was she alone in an elevator at that hour? Why didn’t she ask security to walk her to her car? Pepper spray is small and easily concealed, why didn’t she have some on her? Doesn’t she know the ‘keys-between-the-knuckles’ trick?”
Instead of telling women “stop acting scared around all men, we’re not all rapists”, you might have more empathy for people who go through life with the knowledge that rape is unfortunately common and not only do women struggle to be believed when it actually DOES happen, but they’re demonized when they take extra precautions to AVOID it happening, because men get offended??
I’m assuming that the men in this thread have young women in their families who they would prefer took whatever legal measures made them feel safe and secure in unfamiliar or crime-rich environments and would dial back the offense levels to compensate for this fact. It’s unfortunate that every lone woman can’t instinctively know what a swell guy you are, but in a brief interaction such as the elevator ride, parking garage, bus stop situation, is it really that important that a stranger have the best possible impression of you?
Did she threaten to spray him? Because I read this:
She put as much distance as possible between them and “clutched it fearfully”. She didn’t brandish it, aim it, or point it towards Chimera. But your reckoning, any legal weapon, tool, car key, or can of hairspray qualifies as a weapon.
Yeah, and if you changed the pepper spray to a knife, and changed the knife to a gun, and then changed the gun to a nuclear weapon OMG CHIMERA SURVIVED AN ATTEMPTED TERROR ATTACK!
