HAH, Savings account health scam what a joke.

The BBQ Pit
21

HMO New Mexico. $5 doctor visits, $50 emergency, $100 hospital. $15/25/40 prescriptions, total cost $304 or so dollars a month, half paid by me, half by the owner of the company. Sad thing is that 2 years ago it was $200 a month. Even sadder is 6 years ago, I paid a dollar a week for 10/50/250 coverage.

So basically what I’ve learned so far is that this is great insurance, IF I don’t need insurance, but then again whats the point of having useless insurance? Thankfully at this point the owner is paying 100% of the HSA premiums, plus a $500 booster. From what I can tell, there is no maximum payout per person. $2000 before the coverage even kicks in, at $270 a month. What a scam. As somebody said, the salesman was a slick dirty bastard, and nobody could get straight answers from him. Both my and the other policy are up in two months, maybe I should do a little investigating, and see what I can come up with. Even if the owner wants to stay with an HSA, I’m sure there is a better deal to be had.

Seems like a big huge scam, if our Glorious Leader is pushing it, it must be a scam . When was the last time that stupid fucking monkey (thanx for moving this to the Pit) endorsed anything that ACTUALLY benefitted anybody but the filthy filthy rich.

22

Sounds more comparable to other insurance - car insurance, life insurance. It’ll help cover the disastrous events, like wrecking your car dramatically, wrecking someone else’s expensive car, causing injuries requiring medical attention, etc., but not minor repairs, dings, etc. I think that goes back to someone’s earlier statement about bringing it back to what health insurance used to be. Definitely not a plan for people with frequent medical needs, it sounds like.

23

Sorry, but this made me laugh, and I’m can’t stop.

For whom is any type of health ins NOT a budget concern? Not one person in the middle class-that’s for sure. It’s nice to say, gee, you may not have any chronic illnesses, are generally healthy etc–but that could change, today or tomorrow. An MVA or other accident or something shows up that changes you from healthy to OMG, can we get through this to shit, this isn’t going away–CA just shows up sometimes, for example.

I work strictly for HI at this point–I work for a large chain of hospitals and the cost of our family(5) is a third than for my husband’s company (50 employees).
And still our coverage sucks. I will say that people on the other end of the phone are very nice and courteous–and that’s a plus. We don’t have this HSA, we have what I call regular coverage. It’s better than what we had with my husband’s company, but it still sucks.

But try, just try getting counselling of any kind that is not pyschiatric. Apparently, you can now have mental health issues, you just can’t get treated for them and not be put thru hell. The hoops that must be jumped thru-that are NOT well explained or even mentioned in the literature. It’s confusing and demoralizing to fight this fight. My daughter has OCD–and mental health bennys suck.

Try having a kid who needs Xopenox, not albuterol and see what the co-payment is for the drug. Because I won’t use their mail-in Rx crap–I am charged much more for my Synthroid. I want a face to face pharmacist-and not depend on the US postal service for my medications. Too bad-suck it up.

Fuck it–there is little choice and the threat of having it upped/taken away/modified beyond all recognition is extremely stress inducing. And I work in the damned industry --well, I don’t, really. I work as a nurse, in acute care. Believe me, docs and hospitals have no say in what goes on these days.

24

What sucks a lot is that people with frequent medical needs are being forced onto these plans by employers. I would LOVE to reduce my own personal health care costs, but I can’t. I’ve got medication I need. There’s no generic, so asking me to pay more out of pocket isn’t going to cause me to use my health care dollars more wisely. I still have to paying Pfizer thier kings ransom.

Got a shitty car that’s racking up repair bills? Trade it in. Sports car inflating your car insurance bill? Buy a Toyota. Same goes for homeowners insurance. Worst case scenario, you can always move. You can’t treat health insurance the same way. Speeding is a choice. Most medical conditions are not. We can’t trade our bodies in when they start to fail.

eleanorigby, my mom feels the same way about her synthroid, and is constanly running into hassles at the pharmacy because of it. I certainly would not trust the postal system to deliver medication my life depended on.

25

What you’re missing is that the odds of you needing bypass surgery are very small. It’s people that think like you that insurance salesmen love to sell insurance to. Who this hurts is not the bypass surgery guy, but the hypochondriac.

Sure, if you need bypass surgery within the next year or two, this sounds like it will work out worse for you. Get back to me in 30 years when this has saved you $30,000.

I, personally, hate our current system.

Basically, what it amounts to is that everyone shoulders the cost of all the bullshit nitpicky stuff that everyone goes to the doctor for, whether they go to the doctor or not. I’m paying for my co-worker’s pregnancy, and prozac, and lipitor, and the associated costs with it.

See, I think people LIKE this bullshit system that we have right now. Sure, they KNOW that they’re getting their paycheck snipped, but it lets them justify running to the doctor every time they get the sniffles.

You know who it FUCKS OVER ROYALLY? The healthy!!! The people who eat right, and exercise and are personally responsible for their own health. Yeah, that’s fair.

However, these HSAs – which we don’t offer – sound like they could change that. Let people start writing checks for all that bullshit stuff they run to the doctor for. Hopefully this has two effects:

  1. they get their general physical and mental health in order.

  2. I stop fucking paying for it.

26

What you don’t seem to get is that someone is paying for that. That someone is the guy in the next office over who had granola and an apple for breakfast, after his morning jog.

What is this, Russia?

We’re never going to socialize health care. It’s already socialized. Problem is, it’s socialized by people who are still making profits off it.

27

Oh my God! Thank you so much! I had no idea the answer to my health problem was granola and a jog. Wow! I’ve been struggling all my life and I never knew it was that simple.

Oh, but wait, I did do that. Turns out I still need medication.

And I can’t eat granola anyway. Oh well.

You completely missed my point about illnesses one has no control over. I do in fact get that the cost is spread out over society. It’s the only way that it’s fair. Just because you’ve been lucky doesn’t mean you’ll stay that way.

Calling people hypocondriacs is a cop out, and we get to put a band-aid on a gunshot wound. It’s like the welfare queen myth. You imagine this whole class of people who go to the doctor every thusday to get their toenails clipped, but I highly doubt they exist. The real problem is people who actually need medical care, and the ever-expanding array of medications and procedures available to them at ever increasing cost. However, very few people actually have the fortitude to look someone in the eye and say, “My new plasma TV is more important than you getting treatment for your illness.” We sleep better if we can convince ourselves that costs are skyrocketing because someone else is being stupid.

PS. I gotta ask. On what planet is pre-natal care a bullshit, nitpicky reason for going to the doctor? And how are people supposed to get their physical and mental health in order without going to the doctor? Is mental illness something you can will yourself out of?

28

Well, unlucky you. Fuckin’ pay for it.

My car broke down. Can my fellow employees chip in?

My dog got hit by a car. Can my fellow employees help pay for the costs?

The “EVER EXPANDING ARRAY OF MEDICATIONS AND PROCEDURES?” You mean this expanding array of medications that we seemed to do fine without when the average American was 50 sizes smaller? When a rambunctious kid didn’t get his ritalin because, guess what: he’s a kid? When “feeling blue” was sometimes just a part of life and we didn’t need to be kept in a constant state of neutral? They invent a drug that we didn’t need and now I need to subsidize it?

Come around my office ANY DAY at lunch time here. Check out this guy coming back from McDonald’s with food enough for 4 people, but it’s only for him and his office mate. Check out this dude eating a candy bar, a bag of chips, and a soda. Check out this guy eating 3 Hot Pockets filled with who knows what. Check out how long that dozen donuts lasted that someone brought in this morning.

Check out this dude with the bad back and two bad knees. . .you think that might have anything to do with that giant waistline?

Follow these people home. Check them out picking up food for the family (who I’m also paying for) at TGIFs. Check them out sitting on their couches watching TV from the time they get home till the second they go to bed.

You think these are the anomalies?

You think we’re not paying for this behavior?

You know what. . .this thread is the final impetus I need. I swear to you, this is the last month I’m getting health care from my employer. I just looked online I can get individual health care with an HSA for about $200 cheaper PER MONTH than my current plan.

29

You think that all medical problems are caused by eating too many donuts? I’ll remember that when I break my leg. Instead of going to the doctor, I’ll just cut back on the Big Macs. That’ll fix it. :rolleyes:

30

I’m as anti-Bush as the next guy, but HSA’s are a good idea, at least until the entire system is overhauled.

Any more, people don’t understand is what (conceptually), health insurance is and what it used to be. Health insurance is supposed to first and foremost protect us against large financial burdens associated with medical/health problems.

Yeah, yeah, flame me for not saying it’s about protecting us first and foremost from health problems… but you know what? People need to protect themselves first and foremost. If you have a medical problems, or you “need” to take prescriptions, why on earth would you let something like MONEY get in the way of that?

Oh yeah, because it might mean sacrificing the other nice things you have, like the car you drive, or nice house you live in.

Those who are healthy and/or don’t need these things (yet) are motivated to continue living a healthy lifestyle (and, I guess, so to are those who are already in need). Hopefully parents/the system/schools, encourage their children to do the same, via excersice, better diets, etc.

Anyway, back to my point – over time, the perceptions people have of what health insurance is and what it used to be has changed. Today, health insurance is nothing more to most people than the ID Card sitting in their wallet or purse, entitling them to medications for the price of a happy meal or doctors office visits that (gasp!) cost $30 with a copay.

Without the HSA, you’re (or you plus employer, or just employer) are STILL PAYING for the full cost of the medications and the full cost of the doctors office visit (and associated costs) with the PREMIUM associated with those plans as they renew with 40%+ increases every year.

With the HSA, you can not only act as a consumer, but they let you do it with tax-deferred money. I can’t put aside money in a tax-sheltered account to buy groceries, or for a gym membership, or for car tires.

Also, to the O.P., the law has limits to annual maximum out-of-pocket costs associated with the HSA. There’s no way you’re paying 10% of the next $98,000 on a claim like that. As already mentioned, most HSA’s-qualified insurance plans come with 100% coinsurance after the deductible, but even if you have coinsurance after the deductible, there will be something called the stop-loss limit that gives you a maximum out-of-pocket cost. Again, with most plans having 100% coinsurance, the out of pocket maximum is usually less than typical PPO plans.

I have an HSA myself. $1700 deductible. My old plan was up to $160/mo, new HSA plan is $68 a month. I put the difference each month into the HSA, and after a few months I can actually see myself going to the dentist (and using the HSA money for it) or for a check-up if I need it (wellness/routine benefits can still be paid first-dollar). If I (or if I ever had kids) ever need to go in, I’m not going to let the balance in my HSA stop me from going.

Then come tax time, I can write off the contributions. I know what my total exposure for the year is, and I FACTOR THAT INTO my lifestyle: what I buy and what I don’t, etc.

OK I’ll stop now.

31

Is that $200 less per month total, or just $200 less per month for what you pay in premiums? How much of your premiums does your employer cover? Just curious, not challenging anything.

32

Yes, I think that ALL medical problems are caused by eating too many donuts. That’s exactly what I said. Of the two of us, it’s not me that need the :rolleyes:

Question: when’s the last time you broke your leg?

How much have you paid in health insurance premiums SINCE THEN?

Let’s say you MIGHT break your leg 5 years from now.

Option 1 (the way things have always been done): You pay $200 a month for the next 5 years, and you don’t pay a deductible IF you break your leg. Whoopee.

Option 2 (a HSA): You pay $100 a month in premiums for the next 5 years, and a $100 a month into a HSA. You now have (roughly, after compounding) $6500 in your savings account. You pay your $5000 deductible, and 10% of the remaining costs. That’s IF you break your leg. In Option 1, that money is gone.

Who loses? The guy who goes to the doctor every two months for the next 5 years and then breaks his leg. The guy who breaks his leg one year from now.

33

Currently paying about $265 per month for premiums for TWO people.

I found a two-person deal online with an HSA for $88 (That’s $187 difference – I did say ABOUT $200).

Still, I know that that’s just the coverage and that money will have to go into the HSA account. So $200 a month doesn’t represent the actual savings. But, that’s for an individual plan, too. If my employer offered an HSA, I assume I could do better.

I’ll tell ya: people don’t want them, because people don’t want to change their bahavior. Start making people write checks for this shit, and see how well people get all of a sudden.

34

I’d probably get an HSA since it would suit my needs. As it stands, my employer pays 100% of my BCBS premiums, but it’s not much since I’m young, in good health and have no chronic conditions. Just go in for a checkup once or twice a year.

35

An HSA can be cheaper because many times the difference in premiums over a year will be greater than the deductible. So if you put the difference between the $800 traditional plan and the $200 HSA plan in the account, you can come out ahead.

The bad thing when an employer offers the HSA is that he’s not putting the premium difference in the account. He’s pocketing the difference. So he’s saving the $600 and making you come up with it.

Another bad thing about the HSA is that you pay the listed rate at the doctor. Usually the insurance companies have negotiated a better price for services with the doctor. But if you come in off the street, you’ll pay the normal price. So a treatment which costs $80 under BCBS might cost you $120 with your HSA.

I think an HSA is great for certain situations. If you are paying for your own health insurance, you can save a lot of money on premiums and you get to have an additional tax-deferred savings account. But if you don’t get to pocket the premium difference it doesn’t work out so well.

36

I love the implication that the problem with the uninsured is that they have all kinds of money to put in savings accounts.

They may be good in some situations, but they are nowhere anywhere at all even vaguely anything more than a bizarre cobbled together band-aid for our horrific health care “system”.

37

Cool, Bush want’s us to shop around for our medical needs? Grab the cart, we’re going to Canada!

38

This shouldn’t be true. You still have and use your insurance card so the insurance company knows how much money to apply towards your deducitible. If you have an HSA-qualified plan with BCBS, you’re still paying the BCBS negotiated price for the service. In fact, you can have an HSA-qualified plan, and not have the HSA at all. They are separate.

On the other hand, I have heard of people who have offered to pay for a procedure with cash, and between two facilities in the same town, had the offer for the procedure reduced from $1300 to $500.

39

Well, yes, that pretty much seems to be your argument:

You seem to be obsessed with other people’s weight, and you make no allowance for illnesses caused by genetics, or injury, or anything THAT’S NOT UNDER THEIR FUCKING CONTROL.

Option 3 (How the HSA “worked” for us): You pay $300 a month (and rising) in premiums for the next five years (for any expenses over the $5000 deductible only, so that’s money down the rathole). You manage to put $100/month in the HSA, or $1200 a year. (That’s $400/month total amount paid, not $200 as Trunk surmises, for those of you who are following along).

Your regular yearly medical expenses are as follows:
Prescription: $200 (best deal I could find, at drugstore.com, $50 for 3 months of BCs)
OB/GYN exam: $170
Dental hygiene visits: 3 for me, 2 for Mr. S, at $100/pop: $500 (more for visits requiring X-rays, dentist exams, crowns/fillings, etc.)
1-1/2 eye exams (mine every year, Mr. S’s every two years): $80 each, so $120 total

That’s $1290 for the bare minimum. I’m $90 in the hole. That’s not counting any extra dental care, replacement eyeglass lenses, injuries, unexpected illness such as sinus infection, twisted ankle, thyroid imbalance, skin rash, abnormal Pap requiring an extra test, and so on (all of which examples we incurred while we were on the MSA). Not much interest earned, much less compounded, because we had to keep pulling money out of the account for, guess what, MEDICAL EXPENSES.

When your balance consistently hovers around a few hundred dollars, you live in fear of an unexpected medical expense that’s less than the deductible. Sure, if you get something major that puts you over, you “hit the jackpot” and your $300 premiums finally “pay off” on the amount over the $5000 deductible. But you still have to come up with the $5K. And anything less than the deductible you still have to pay for. The thyroid thing cost me about $1100. Not nice to face with $300 in the account and all the regular expenses still to be paid.

Oh, so just put more money in the MSA, you say? Pay attention now: WE DIDN’T HAVE IT. The reason we were on this plan in the first place is that my husband was unemployed. Bye-bye 2/3 of our former income. Suddenly I’m the breadwinner and we’re scraping to make ends meet. As in pay the regular bills. Sure, I bumped up my workload, and Mr. S found work here and there, but we were still scraping. And suppose we did find extra money to sock away in the MSA. Next month the car breaks down. (Both paid for, BTW, and both in the neighborhood of 200K miles. No shiny new SUV for us.) Can’t touch that money to fix the car because it’s for medical expenses only. Now what??? Or I need surgery and am unable to work for a month, so not only do I have to come up with an extra $5K for the deductible, but I can’t work to earn the money.

As you say, “In Option 1, that money is gone.” It sure is, I spent it on peace of mind and consider it well spent. In your Option 2, which exists in some sort of fantasyland, the money still goes to pay for the broken leg – assuming I have it. In Option 3, the real-world application, there’s barely any money to begin with. And I have to worry all the time about what’s waiting around the corner to put me in the hospital and the poorhouse at the same time.

even sven has it right:

40

Well, crap, I don’t know how I did that. That $1290 should be $990. So I have $210 left over tta the end of the year, again assuming no extra unexpected expenses. Still not enough of a cushion.