In the context of schools and College admittance.
Should half blacks only get half the points?
Or perhaps a better question is: what qualifies you to call yourself “african american”? Is there any racial measure, is it at the discretion of the individual? If so, could anyone claim to be african american?
I am aware that affirmative action includes more than just blacks, but I am taking a specific example to help determine what qualifies you for affirmative action.
Is the cup half-EMPTY or half-FULL?
Why is the thread not titled “Half-WHITES” and affirmative action?
Sorry, couldn’t resist. 
I said half, but really it could be any combination, but where do we draw the line? Is it up to the individual? If so, anyone could claim to be anything.
Half-whites do not necessarily qualify for affirmative action – namely, if the other half is Asian.
That is my fundatmental problem with all affirmative action. I am convinced that race does not truly exist, and therefore, has no legal definition. Like many Texans, I am a Scotch/Irish and Cherokee mongrel, but if I claim to be black for some advantage, can it be proven otherwise? One look at me and you know different, but could you prove it?
There are social inequalities that demand adjustment, I have no qualms about that. But we cannot aspire to be blind to race while relying on that chimera for our solution. As much as I admire the intent of affirmative action, it relies on a falsehood for its mechanism, it personifies the very lie it seeks to redress.
That we haven’t found a better way is a failure of will and imagination. We can do better. We wouldn’t have gotten this far if it were impossible.
One drop, my friend.
Maybe so, but I still can’t dance.
In an earlier AA thread this came up, and I called the University of Michigan undergrad admissions office and asked them. They told me that race is self reported, and is based on the student’s self-identification. Further, they told me they do not investigate race, they rely on their applicants to be honest, but also noted that lying on the application is grounds for expulsion. So, to answer your question, if you self identify as African American, you may qualify for AA even though you would be described by any third party observer as being “white”.
“but also noted that lying on the application is grounds for expulsion.”
But if they don’t provide a definition of race how can they tell if someone is lying or not.
Hey, I just ask the questions, and report the answers!
I suppose on some future application for employment or something you could change your response? I don’t know, if all it takes is self-identification, I guess that could change too. One day you’re Asian, the next Latino. It all depends on how you ‘feel’. In short - It’s a mess.
(Ignorant foreigner question)
Is there a legal definition of black in the US? (or any other legal racial definition?)
If there is no such definition what constitutes black (or other race) for the purposes of affirmative action?
(by way of comparison)
In NZ the maori (indigenous people) have certain rights guaranteed them under the Treaty of Waitangi, but there is no legal definition of maori, and the last full-blood maori died (to the best of my knowledge) during the 1990’s.
Deva’s half empty/full comments are apropos here as many of the people who identify (ethnically) as maori are more than 50% something else.
So I was wondering how this is handled elsewhere (like the US)?
Apollyon:
Good question. I would guess that most universities opperate under the same principles as the U of M. But, I believe there are certain gov’t sponsored AA situations where this could be a significant legal issue. I’m thinking of loans directed at “minority” owned businesses, or req’ts that certain contracts be given to companies with x % of “minority” employees. I wonder how a court would deal with this under the following circumstances:
A person claims to be black, but looks white.
Same as 1), but the person produces a birth certificate showing his/her great-grandmother was black. All other great-gps were white.
Two people claim to be Hispanic although they only have one grandparent who actually was “full” Hispanic. One guy’s last name is Martinez and the other guy’s last name is Jones.
I’ve never heard of this being taken up by a court in recent times.
… I called the University of Michigan undergrad admissions office… They told me that race is self reported, and is based on the student’s self-identification… they told me they do not investigate race, they rely on their applicants to be honest, but also noted that lying on the application is grounds for expulsion. So,… if you self identify as African American, you may qualify for african- american status even though you would be described by any third party observer as being “white”."
Has the world gone mad…?
Um, perhaps. Care to elaborate?
Probably because most people who appear white prefer to be identified as white. It is also socially more comfortable for some people to identify as being white (easier to assimilate), and that would be more important to them than any benefits from affirmative action.
Just a thought.
Well, perhaps when non-blacks are willing to be forever labeled as black to recieve college admission benefits, then it will be time for affirmative action to end. Just a thought.
BTW, didn’t intend to mock Lithium in any way. I think the “Just a thought” phrase subconsciously entered my brain and manifested in the above post.
I don’t have anything to really say to the OP. But just know this: Being “half-black” didn’t mean squat in the antebellum South. Nor did it protect you from Jim Crow. My father, a light-skinned black man, was called nigger right alongside his darker-skinned friends and relatives. He has been discriminated against for being black and he doesn’t even look that black.
If people can be given shit for being half-black, I don’t see why they can’t be viewed favorably for the same reason.
Gnat:
“when non-blacks are willing to be forever labeled as black”
As far as AA is concerned, that’s not really an issue. Just claim to be part Native American. There’s basically no social stigmatization for being part Indian. In fact, it becomes trendy at times. I remember after Dances with Wolves was released, the US suddenly had a surge in Native American population at the adult level.
So, I don’t think it’s that simple. Most people are basically honest.
Oops.
Most people are basically honest about certain things, and I think race is one of them. What we put on our Income Tax forms is obviously not one of the.