What the hell?!
I’ve heard about “Girls Gone Wild” but this takes the cake!
In places other than fantasy worlds of bondage and kiddie-porn, naked 5 year olds are not common or appropriate.
This isn’t an infant we’re talking about. 5 years old is too old to be in public restaurants without clothes.
Like I said, I don’t think it would have bothered me in a restaurant.
Heh, we say the same thing. In fact, a nearby Wal-Mart is the only place I ever see babies wearing just diapers. We incorporate them into our Wal-Mart Bingo games.
Outside is fine, at a park or beach or even something like a parade. Inside at a restaurant, especially a sit-down one, everyone should wear clothes. I am not “offended” at the sight. Please. Anyone with children has seen it all, that does not mean that everything is ok anywhere.
You can’t tell us this and not tell us what Mom said!
5 and 2 year olds should wear shirts in public eateries. Period. If for no other reason than a slippery slope argument. If it is OK for 5 year olds, is it OK for 8 year olds? Ten year olds? 16 year olds? C’mon, they’re just kids! I mean, they can’t even vote yet! If your kid can’t handle Spagetti without wearing it, you need to reevaluate your choice of dinner for them. I am fairly sure that Olive Garden serves alfredos and mac and cheese. Or you can make them wear older shirts, or make them wear bibs, or resign yourself to having stained shirts. Or you could take your kids to a place where the menu, the decor, and the other diners are kid-friendly, like Wendy’s or Burger King.
Selfish, ignorant parents with no class. I feel sorry for the little girls.
Bear_Nenno. Your comment is somewhat out of place in IMHO. I don’t think the fantasy world of bondage and kiddie porn was introduced before you brought it up. And yes, everyone understands what statement you’re making here. But you’re out of line. When a poster brings up something that relates to bondage or kiddie porn, you can rightfully discuss it. But not otherwise.
Sometimes an opinion about what kids are doing is just an opinion.
samclem Moderator
She said thank you for telling her what happened, but she seemed pretty shocked. I think she was grappling in her head with punishing them and not wanting to make them feel like sex is wrong. I didn’t stick around and have a long drawn out conversation with her though, so I am not sure what happened after that.
I should probably say at this point that if the restaurant has a dress code, then them’s the rules, no exceptions, but if not… I dunno… I’m just not getting to the part where we conclude “And exposed skin is a bad thing because…”
To me, it seems like much of the argument is that we must teach our children to cover themselves up so that they will accept it as normal, and having accepted it as normal, will, when they grow up, expect other people’s children to cover themselves up. As I said, I’m missing the actual point of it all. Why is it necessary for children to wear shirts in restaurants?
And I don’t buy this explanation either, unless you’re going to tell me that you make them wear long sleeves and a hat for exactly the same reasons of safety.
And a faceguard and several layers of bubble wrap, of course, duh. 
Seriously though, a burn on your arm sucks, but a burn on your belly or your back sucks worse. And while it’s not the primary reason they should wear shirts (because again, the primary reason is simply that clothes should be worn in public), I’ve seen a few unfortunate spills in my time, and just the presence of small children tends to increase the likelihood of accidents exponentially. It doesn’t happen often, but when it does, I’d much rather my kid not wind up with a plate of hot pasta all over her bare chest and stomach. Ouch!
…because…?
Children need to be taught how to function in society. Much of what adults and teenagers do is what they did or were taught to do when they were little. Think about the dishes you make at the holidays, how you fold laundry, the cleaning supplies you use, etc. How much of that is influenced by the fact that you were taught to do it that way by your parents? I know much of what I do and the choices I make are partially based on what I was taught as a child and partially based on my own separate life experiences. How do you explain to a 10 year old that they have to wear a shirt now when they didn’t have to 2 years ago? Why is a 7 year old different than a 24 year old? If that little girl gets to be topless I should get to do the same thing right? Where do you draw the line?
When I see people with children around I try to tone down the harsh language and not smack them around when they get annoying. In return I expect parents to keep their children clothed, seated, and (mostly) quiet whenever possible. I don’t think this is too much to ask of the rest of society.
Because most people aren’t sufficiently attractive that I want to see them naked.
Well, some people are sufficiently unattractive that I don’t like looking at their faces; perhaps they should cover them up in my presence.
Just because.
I know, I hate that answer too. But sometimes it’s the only one.
My son has been going with me to clothing optional campgrounds since he was a tot. There, we have discussions like this. Why do we need to wear clothes? Aren’t societal expectations interesting? Doesn’t the sun feel nice on your back? (And front and butt?) Isn’t it nice to de-sexualize the naked body and appreciate it on a whole different level, without (as much) judgment and shock? (And, actually, he’s never been much for the nudity option. He likes to wear clothes. OK, it’s an “option”. No one freaks out because he’s wearing shorts and a t-shirt or ever pressures him to take anything off.)
And when it’s time to drive home, we put our clothes back on before we get into the car. Because while nudity is appropriate THERE, where everyone has agreed to it and is on the same page, nudity is not appropriate HERE (here being The Olive Garden.) Why? Because we (meaning you and I and Aunt Cindy and Grandma and that creepy old guy in the corner) have not agreed it is. We haven’t come to The Clothing Optional Olive Garden. We haven’t signed waivers and rules of conduct. We don’t have a social contract that includes nudity outside of our private space at home. We do, by way of laws about dress, have a social contract to remain clothed, and kids need to learn it.
The thing that’s bugging me is that societal expectations are, to a certain extent, a product of themselves; the children must be told to cover up because… because… anyway, they just have to cover up; when they grow up, they’ll expect it of others, perhaps for no particular reason other than that it was drummed into them when they were young. What actual purpose does any of it serve, other than to provide something for uptight people to obsess over?
You were eating at a FAMILY restaurant. With Kids. Kids always do innappropriate things, like writing on the walls, staring at other guests, crying, pulling food off the table, and yes, even randomly changing their state of dress. They’re kids.
Personally, I agree with a few on this board that think most people here are way too uptight.
They dont need to “learn” about keeping their clothes on. Thats one of those things that peer pressure teaches them inevitably. Let them have their freedom while they can.
What I find more disturbing is the number of people who seem to care too much about this.
Works for kids, but among adults, it’s just a confession of intellectual bankruptcy.
Which is why I expanded on it.
Do things change? Sure. 100 years ago, heck, 60 years ago, we’d all have been tut-tutted for not wearing our hats and gloves to The Olive Garden. In another 50 years, maybe it will be a topless joint. But that doesn’t mean I teach my kids “anything goes”. It means I teach them the conventions of our time, and encourage them to press the issue and fight for things they believe in changing when they understand what they’re doing and the consequences - legal and social - of doing so.
If you, with full understanding of our current social and legal rules and a reason to believe they should be changed, decide to hold a “strip-in” at The Olive Garden to demonstrate against indecent exposure laws, you have my full blessing. Heck, I’ll probably even join you! Will we get yelled at, scorned and perhaps even physically attacked before getting hauled away to jail and convicted of breaking the law? Yep. Is it worth it? Maybe, that’s something only people of a certain age and responsibility can decide for themselves. Informed consent, if you will.
These girls weren’t informed, nor did they consent. They were not questioning our social customs as **Mangetout **is. They simply hadn’t been taught them yet. And that deserves a tut-tut towards their parents.
It’s not like I’m advocating calling Family Services here!