I know the “V-Sign” gesture–i.e., extending your index and middle finger in a manner similar to the “Peace” or “Victory” gesture, but with the palm facing inward–is considered offensive to British and Irish audiences.
Is this hand gesture considered offensive in any other countries or cultures?
I was struck by this question after seeing this photograph and thinking to myself how rude (albeit unintentionally) Jane Fonda’s gesture appeared. Since the photo was taken in India, I was wondering if the gesture would convey a similar meaning to an Indian audience.
I promise to smite the first poster who attributes the gesture’s origin to the Battle of Agincourt.
Most in the U.S. aren’t aware of the offensive connotation – on Buffy the Vampire Slayer the character Spike (who is British) uses this from time to time – even, for many episodes, in the opening credits – and the censors never caught it.
The censors didn’t catch a lot of what Spike said or did.
Most of the time in the US, people just think you are flashing them the “peace” symbol. Makes it handy for flipping off people you don’t want to know you are flipping them off. Cops and bikers, fer instance.
So far as I know, it’s not known as being offensive in India. However, the thumbs up sign can be offensive. That’s rather funny, because Thumsup (with the attendant gesture) is a major brand of cola drink in India.
I’m going to have to disagree on this–Yes, Spike used the two-finger salute, and yes, it was allowed to remain in the episodes, but I think the simple reason is that the gesture has no real impact here in the USA. We see it, we say, “Oh, he’s giving the British version of ‘the finger’. How funny. Oh, he’s saying words like ‘bloody’, ‘bugger’, ‘bollocks’, and ‘bint’. Isn’t it quaint how those Brits speak?”
Well, maybe “offensive” is too strong a word. Schoolboys use it to taunt each other, often accompanied by a phrase that literally means “Eat a plaintain!” (Plaintains aren’t considered a particularly desirable food in Indian culture. Usually people who eat them can’t afford anything better.)
Oh, and, by the way, Thumsup is now owned by Coca-Cola.
Heh, it amuses me to end on language moderated forums and chat rooms when Brits censor bl**dy and the like. That, to me, is like saying “Gsh drn-it all to h*ck!” (Gosh darn-it all to heck!) I believe I’ve even seen those terms used on children’s shows when portraying British characters; they really mean absolutely nothing to us Yanks.
I agree. “Bloody,” “bollocks,” and “bugger” are all nonsense words to us, just like “pram,” “sultanas,” and “spanner” – they’re just markers for someone who’s English; they’re not markers for someone who uses crude language.
I’m curious if anybody knows this. I know that the V-inward sign is considered offensive some places.
Do other places use the Lesbian gesture. Bascially it’s making the V-sign palm in, holding it right over the mouth, and flicking the tounge between it. Symbolic of licking the clitoris I guess. Like for example, the other day one of my friends was in a bar hitting on a chick. She said she wasn’t interested and did the gesture, and everybody understood that she was saying she was a lesbian, and there wasn’t a point in the dude trying anymore. Do other places do that, and is it in anyway related to why the V alone gesture is offensive someplaces?
Well, according to Desmond Morris, in his book BodyTalk: A World Guide to Gestures that is the same gesture. According to him, the V symbolizes the spread legs of a woman, and the other parts(tongue, etc.) are added or left out depending on location and complexity of insult. All theories as to derivation from Agincourt, etc. are completely bogus.
A shockingly shoddy piece of work that. Whilst it addresses the question as put (i.e. middle finger and pluck=fuck), it fails to remember that the quoted text is a joke. Which is odd, as it actually states that.
Obviously the author of the quote changed the gesture from the v-sign to the middle finger because the joke was aimed at a US and not a British audience. So, if they’re going to spend ages debunking it, debunk the real thing and not the joke.
Whilst the point about the heralds is well made, it loses any credibility when you realise that there were no English archers taken prisoner at Agincourt, so there would be no reports of their finger(s) being lopped off, either at the time or after.
Any even-handed report would note that the actual gesture is not the middle finger one but the v-sign. Once you accept that, the paragraphs discussing why the French would do it are all obviously off the mark.
Now, if someone wants to still tell me that the History Channel was wrong, then fair enough.
Censoring of ‘offensive’ words by using asterisks is an established procedure in many parts of the British media. Including laughable examples where it is deemed necessary to talk about “t*ts” on the same page as a full photo of the real thing :rolleyes: I suspect that the producers of the childrens’ shows you mention have come across this…
On the other hand, parts of British media are fully prepared to say ‘fuck you’ to censorship. The Guardian, one major newspaper, has an explicit policy on never unnecessarily censoring swear words in this way, and particularly on never using asterisks. The BBC repeatedly showed the Superbowl ‘event’, laughing at the possiblity that anyone was offended.
