In the UK, one person who seemed to make the gesture well known , was a rather grumpy showjumper called Harvey Smith in the 1970s.
I seem to remember hearing a theory that it’s origins are in representing the “horns of a cuckold” - ie: someone is sleeping with your wife!
Sounds a bit like something out of Chaucer or Shakespeare.
I’ve heard the “horns” theory as well.
Ditto for Australia. That Jane Fonda picture is hilarious.
Another example is “wanker”: it’s rather offensive in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, but it passes in the US (for example, it’s used on the Simpsons). (Obviously, Americans know what it means, but the word seems to be seen more as a cute oversea’s regionalism rather than an obscenity.)
Same in Australia.
I’m 40. When I was very young the thumbs up sign was also offensive, but only under some circumstances. The “good luck” thumbs up was fine, but an upward thrusting of the thumb (often accompanied by a raspberry noise) was offensive. By the mid '70s this had virtually disappeared.
The “two fingered salute” (the reverse peace sign) has always been offensive, but it is quite a long time since I have seen it used. Road rage incidents and the like now seem to employ exclusively the American middle finger gesture. Giving someone “the forks” would still be understood to imply offence, but would also label you as an old geezer.
Damn you Jervoise. In the time it took me to log in and type my response, you beat me to it. 
I’d slightly disagree with others that have commented that it is offensive in Australia. I suspect it is somewhat akin to words like ‘bloody’, ‘bugger’ or ‘bum’ that were once considered offensive but have these days lost all impact.
I still use the sign (we always called it the ‘up yours!’ sign) quite regularly but only in a joking way.
I would agree that it has dropped out of general usage a fair bit.
Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesture] on the Peace / “V” for Victory gesture.
That is George Herbert Wanker Bush senior in 1993. I cant find a photo.
That Jane Fonda picture is a crackup.
I must be dense, Bromley, because your commentary on the Snopes piece isn’t making any sense to me. Yes, the piece failed to note that the British gesture is two-fingered rather than one-fingered, but the information presented by Snopes seems to be applicable in either case.
A what?
wolfman: In the US, the gesture you’re talking about (two fingers up in a V, flicking your tongue between them) is seen as dirty enough that you certainly won’t see it on TV aimed at kids. It’s understood to symbolize performing oral sex on a woman, but it’s not confined to lesbians.
That is, if a woman in a bar did that at you, she might be saying “I go down on girls” or “Not unless your tongue is double jointed, there, buddy.”
A “showjumper” isan upperclass twit on a horse who prances around a ring (the horse, not the twit. I mean, the twit too, but he is on the horse) jumping over things. The horsey set seem to think that this signifies something, and give trphies and virgins to the winners. I remember the picture. Seems ole Harv was a bit peeved about something, so he flashed the V at the Royal Box. That sounds even dirtier than it was.
Indeed, the “reversed-V” sign probably wouldn’t even be recognized by most of the U.S. population, although it does sound somewhat similar to to “lesbian gesture” wolfman describes. But even THAT probably wouldn’t be recognized by too many people.
And does anyone remember the cartoon “Rocko’s Modern Life” that used to be on Nickelodeon? A kid’s show, through and through…and the hero said “bugger” about every five minutes. And he wasn’t a mean or crude character…he just happened to use a “meaningless” swear word when the occasion arose. Most kids probably thought he was talking about insects, or something.
Well, I was a little pissed (Brit. Eng.) at the time, so it doesn’t scan perfectly. Bear in mind that I don’t have access to the three sources, so I can’t comment on the statements made therein.
“The piece quoted above is silly, and so obviously a joke . . …” Therefore she knew that it was a joke, but then proceeded to debunk it without considering the “real” case (see 3).
Lack of eyewitness herald or subsequent commentator reports. Potentially a good point. However, as I said, I can only consider the specifics of what she wrote and not what she read. She wrote, “Several heralds – both French and English – were present at the battle of Agincourt, and not one of them (or any later chroniclers of Agincourt) mentioned anything about the French having cut off the fingers of captured English bowman.”
Unfortunately, this point cannot stand by itself. No English (or Welsh) archers were captured at Agincourt, so none had their fingers cut off there. Now, if she’d said “HYW” instead of Agincourt, then fair enough.
Firstly, she talks about the archers being able to be rearmed at a later date with maces etc. Assuming that that would be true (and it would not; see below), it ignores the key point. That is, these archers had to be trained from childhood. Cut off their right middle finger and you invalidate all that training. You’re then left with someone who can be used as cannon fodder, but all the time invested in their training and body conditioning is wasted and that cannot be easily replaced.
Secondly, she’s fallen into the trap of debunking the joke without accounting for the actual supposed situation. If I cut off a middle finger, then of course the person can grip a mace. If I cut off their index and middle, as the actual story goes, then they cannot. They are militarily useless. They are a logistical burden. They may even be economically a burden when they get home, although that’s stretching it.
Now, I’ll concede that I’m no expert on the subject. For example, what happened to non-archer, non-ransomable troops taken in the HYW? Were they all killed? Seems unlikely as people tend not to surrender then.
Assuming that the rank and file were allowed to go, under what conditions? How did they make their way home? The reason why that’s important is that, for the maximum effect of the finger cutting, you need those ex-archers to make it home (plus you probably don’t want them loose in your countryside ). The next generation are more likely to be negatively affected psychologically if they see their fathers crippled than if their fathers are dead heros.
I’m also not saying that the HYW explanation is correct. Just that that was a pretty confused attempt to debunk it.
George Bush Snr mistakenly gave the palm-inwards V-sign during a presidential visit to Australia in 1992.
I bet he did feel like a right charlie afterwards - having broadcast “up yours” to an entire nation’s living rooms. 
What does it mean in Canada? I may have to kill some people, or maybe not 
Going back to the original question, I don’t think it’s particularly offensive in Europe. I was in Germany with a few mates a couple of years ago, and used the old V sign a few times (I forget what for, actually…) but they didn’t seem to mind or care too much.
It’s meaningless here in Canada. I’ve never seen anyone do this, instead relying on the good old one finger wave.
Amazing. The things one learns at the SDMB.
I’m a middle-aged US male. I thought everyone around the world used the single middle digit for this purpose. I never knew the Brits (and others) used the first two fingers. :smack:
Amazing.
Well, couple guys bout my age driving by while I was walk down the street made the v sign.
