Hand gestures: Is the "V-sign" offensive outside of the UK and Ireland?

Everyone around the world? It didn’t occur to you that gestures might be culture-specific?

Actually, the middle-finger is pretty universal. Throughout Asia, the Americas, Africa, Europe, and Australasia where I have travelled, the gesture seems to be universally shunned.

Universally shunned? Or universally employed?

The two-fingers-palm-in gesture is also the American Sign Language sign for “K”, and it is the trademark for Kendall Motor Oil.

In a film clip of Saigon prostitutes during the Vietnam War, they showing the middle finger to passing troops. They weren’t saying “fuck you” they were saying “fuck me”.

Ok, so, what are the actual origins and why is it considered offensive?

Hey c’mon. I admitted my ignorance. Doesn’t that count for something? :slight_smile:

Clearly I’m aware that hand gestures vary from culture to culture, but I admit to believing that this particular gesture was pretty much universally used and/or recognized.

Perhaps I should qualify the word “universally”. I don’t believe that Jovians use their middle finger or their first two digits. Everyone knows that winking their middle eye while grabbing their proboscis is the preferred "fuck you " insult. :smiley:

This thread has my head buzzing with answer-inspired questions, if that makes any sense.

  1. Are American curse words considered as offensive in other English-speaking lands? I’ve always sort of assumed that, for example, “You fcking piece of sht” would pretty much have the same ‘oomph’ everywhere. Yay or nay?

  2. Especially with the Buffy reference, as a devilish friend of mine with the entire series on DVD just got me addicted - I’m now totally confused as to what British expressions mean, and how ‘unacceptable’ they are. Is calling someone a bint like calling them a bitch? Bugger isn’t a harmless word?

  3. Somewhat of a hijack, but it popped into my mind when someone made a reference to ASL - is ASL more or less universal amongst deaf English-speakers? Or is there Canadian sign language, British sign language, etc?

wanders off towards Calculus-homework land, thoroughly confused

  1. Yay. There are things like Johnson that don’t make the cross-over (thankfully for me :slight_smile: ).

a. Bugger, to take up the arse (note the spelling :slight_smile: ), reference to Bulgar. It’s actually quite a friendly swear word and nothing like fuck, shit etc. You can even use it in an endearing way, “He’s a nice old bugger.”
b. Bint, from the arabic “daughter of”. Not a swear word, but pretty condescending in my opinion as, to me, it implies that the girl is dippy or in some way less important than a man. But that’s just me.

  1. No idea, but one item on this page says that it lists 103 sign languages, so I guess there are different ones.

Slight clarification. 2a should have “someone” after “take”.

Most American phrases have decent recognition throughout the english-speaking world, due to cultural dominance (who speaks english yet hasn’t seen a Hollywood film?)

Humour, irony and context are all-important. “Fucking cunt” is a term of endearment with some of my friends, whereas a stranger calling me “wanker” would be a serious insult. “Bugger this” or “Bugger me” are innocuous, but there’s usages where it’s unacceptable. ‘Bint’, btw, is generally used only in humourous contexts.

Yes, there’s a British Sign Language. Although I know nothing about it :confused:

I don’t know why it would be offensive in England–Winston Churchill started using it during the war–everyone thought it meant “Peace”, but in reality you have to remember that he was a great cigar smoker.

Hence, in the U.S., when two teenagers pull up next to each other at a stop light and flash the “V” sign, it means, simply,

“Hey, you wanna drag?”

Nope. Churchill uses a v-sign for “Victory”, but it was palm-out (which would be a pretty odd way to smoke). The palm in one is the equivalent of the finger.

*used (why oh why can’t we edit).

The first place this Yank ever saw the palm-in “V” sign was on The Young Ones. Rik Mayall did it all the time on that show, and I pretty much got its meaning through context. Now my 10-year old son watches the DVDs from that series and runs around making that sign to everyone. We just laugh because it has no meanng here.