I freely admit that I didn’t read every story on that site, but none of them appeared to me to be *happy * to have an abortion. Happy to have the option, sure, and perhaps giddy with relief, but nobody sounded happy to be in that situation. Personally, I’ve never met anyone who got pregnant and thought “Yay, now I can have that abortion I’ve always wanted!”
And why is that particular story okay? Is it only okay to have an abortion if you suffer unduly afterward? Is it “cold and unfeeling” to not twist yourself into a guilt pretzel? I think you may be confusing “cold” with “sure”.
I am trying to recall the last movie I saw in which the female lead or other sympathetically-framed female character, faced with the dilemma of whether to abort or not, decides to abort. I am drawing a blank here. Perhaps you could mention one or two?
Thanks be for Henry Morgentaller’s incredible stubborness and refusal to back down from a cause. May he remain hale and hearty for many years to come - I fear what will happen once he’s no longer around to lead the charge.
Ran like a rabbit, no Mal honey, went to work three 13 hour shifts in a row and couldn’t be bothered to get back into it.
Is it that you have an issue with that particular statistic?
Annual abortion rates range from between 12 per 1,000 women to 90 per 1,000 women in one study. That rate is per 1000 women, not per 1000 pregnancies.
If you’d prefer that rate as a proportion of pregnancies, perhaps you’d rather read this study. Its conclusion:There were 31 abortions for every 100 livebirths worldwide in 2003, and this ratio was highest in eastern Europe (105 for every 100 livebirths).
Allowing for some women to have more than one induced abortion, you reach a range of between 15% and 30% of women having abortions- I picked 25% because it’s a number in between, obviously the exact figure would vary country to country, but it’s a nice round number that’s not too far off the “real” figure. Most estimates are that between 20-30% of all pregnancies end in abortion, and you’ll have to take into account that this is not an area where exact worldwide statistics are easy to come by.
In “Unintended Pregnancy Among American Women
Jacqueline Darroch Forrest
Family Planning Perspectives, Vol. 19, No. 2 (Mar. - Apr., 1987), pp. 76-77
doi:10.2307/2135054”- the author found the rate to be 21%, meanwhile the RCOG states in their Guideline for the Care of Women Requesting Induced Abortion that at least 1/3 of British women will have had an induced abortion by the age of 45.
That’s fine irishgirl honey. Now produce stats to show that any society has ever locked up anything like 25% of its women for abortion or any other crime, or else acknowledge your baseless hyperbole.
I feel the same way. I don’t know that I, personally, could ever go through with it if the situation arose. But if ever my right to choose is threatened, I will fight like hell, because I think every women should have the right to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy.
I can’t quite wrap my head around people who think it’s “just another form of birth control”, though. Are there really people who think that way? Don’t bother with a condom, I’ll just get an abortion if I get pregnant?
Unfortunately, there are. And I say unfortunately not out of the idea that an abortion is murder, but just because it carries medical risks that other contraception doesn’t. Plus, of course, the whole STD angle. I just hate to see women put themselves and their lovers at risk like that.
I support a three pronged approach: prevent unwanted pregnancies, facilitate abortion on demand and support women (with education and medical care) who choose to keep their babies - whether it’s for 9 months or 18 years.
I avoided opening this thread yesterday because I’m torn on Roe v. Wade. I think, for reasons **Bricker **has eloquently presented in other threads, that it’s absolutely shitty law and a horrible misuse of the Constitution. On the other hand, it’s all we’ve got to protect what ought to be a non-issue but isn’t. So, I raise my ambivalent glass in support of female productive rights, with a sigh that Roe v. Wade hasn’t yet been replaced with something a little more sturdy in 35 years.
I’m going with no. And frankly, I think that when people say “women who treat abortion as just another form of birth control” they really mean “women who have abortions for no good reason other than that they don’t want a kid”. As though that’s not good enough reason.
That is never what I think. I think about women in industrialized nations who have more than one abortion (again specifying that the conception was not as a result of rape). Birth control is readily available in the US and Europe so why would a woman want to undergo an outpatient surgical procedure, with all of the hazards that it entails, when there are viable alternatives?
I would never condemn a woman (or girl) who feels trapped and desperate because she is pregnant and feels like she has no options. The law says that she has the right to have an abortion if she chooses. I have several friends who had been in that situation when they were teens. When a woman is older and (should be) better informed, why would she not get on the pill, patch, ring, or carry a condom? And, if she has already had one abortion, shouldn’t she already know what having sex leads to and try to avoid it if she is not ready?
My wife and I had 6 miscarriages, some in the second trimester which was still considered within the legal timeframe for abortion. We underwent fertility treatments in order to try to get pregnant. We finally gave up and adopted our daughter through DCFS. We have met countless people who desperately wanted children and had a hard time watching people celebrate the termination of a pregnancy. How many threads have we seen on this very board from people who desperately wanted children only to suffer a miscarriage? In fact, on the 35th anniversary that you are glorifying, another doper is mourning.
While I don’t want women to feel like they should be forced to have an unwanted child, I refuse to celebrate the day.
BTW, the name Planned Parenthood is a crock. The only planning they endorse is for reducing the number of parents. I found nothing in that organization that pushed for help in getting pregnant.
First of all, I’m not getting from that story “I’m not going to bother using protection, because I can always have an abortion.” I’m getting “I can’t believe I did this stupid thing, thank god I was able to get an abortion.”
Second of all, do you disagree that “because I don’t want a kid” is a perfectly adequate reason to have an abortion?
Because let us not be mistaken, most people agree that abortion shouldn’t be one’s *primary * form of birth control, because if nothing else it’s expensive, invasive, and generally inconvenient. But of course it’s birth control. Last resort birth control. And that’s not a bad thing.
Then I guess we read it differently, because I read “I know I should use birth control, but I never thought it would happen to me!” And that’s a pathetic attitude for someone who’s having regular sex to have.
But there are people who are that irresponsible out there, and they will get pregnant. Given that, would you rather they had the kid, or had an abortion? If they can’t think of long-term consequences when it comes to using birth control, why are they more likely to do so when it comes to giving up a child for adoption? And what kind of parent is someone who is that irresponsible and willfully ignorant of long-term consequences likely to be?
Because hormonal birth control methods have some horrendous side effects and they are not infallible, and the failure rate of a condom is frankly scary. For every condom user, as many as 18 out of 100 will get pregnant in a year. For every person having sex with no contraceptive method at all, not even withdrawal, only 85 out of 100 will get pregnant. Is a condom better than nothing? Sure. But it’s nowhere near infallible, and not as effective as most people think. It’s entirely possible that a woman using nothing but barrier methods could get pregnant more than once over 25 years of fertility.
I also extend you my sympathies, as I did to the other Doper this morning. Miscarriages suck. I expect they suck as much as unplanned pregnancies.
Well, that’s unusual. Planned Parenthood was where I first learned of Taking Charge of Your Fertility and that book helped me plan my conception to the T. All routine gynecologic care is available there. True, they are not infertility experts, but they’ve never claimed to be. Most people are not infertile. Therefore, for most people, “planning” your parenthood is about avoiding it until you choose it.
I’ve got absolutely no problem with women using abortion as birth control. Why would I? If they’re not responsible enough to use BC, they shouldn’t be having a baby (even one they’re going to put up for adoption). If their bodies can’t handle the hormones, they can’t handle being pregnant.
And I, too, am curious about all these movies in which the kick ass female leads have abortions. Though I’d love to see them.
Nope no one “owes” me a baby. And people who deal with infertility and pregnancy loss aren’t “owed” babies. But I wish that the women who share the cavalier attitude of this girl about taking precautions could just talk with the people who either cannot get pregnant or who cannot carry to term. Each one is in pain about pregnancy but from different sides. One is carrying a baby she doesn’t want, another wants a baby she can’t carry. They should create an eHarmony type service matching unwanted pregnancies with fertility patients.
We went to DCFS because we were looking for a baby that needed us they way that we needed her. Adoption in the US is cumbersome, costly and frustrating. Some adoption clinics are more like baby brokers. We had one organization ask for our income and wanted to run a credit check on us. They wouldn’t tell us the cost of adopting until we provided that info. Naturally we didn’t stay with them.
Again, I refuse to judge the young women who either don’t know better because of their age or who get caught unawares or the victims of rape. I don’t feel quite the same way for the older woman who was knowledge, experience and access to birth control. And I feel disturbed that a woman would have more than one abortion. I remember reading somewhere (I’ll try to find it) that abortion was the primary form of birth control in Russia with some women having more than one.
We’re not talking about third world countries where access to condoms is limited. We are talking about Europe and America. Why would any woman want to do it more than once?
Sorry about hijacking this thread away from your party. You go ahead and remember Roe v Wade as a thing to celebrate, I’m going to go to the cemetery and put flowers on the graves of Erin (20 weeks), Bridget (18 weeks) and Tommy (22 weeks).
BTW, never forget that “Roe”, Norma McCorvey, has recanted her support for abortion. Your hero is against you.