If by “interesting” you mean “pedantic, irritating, and self-important,” you may have a point. Besides, we’re talking science fiction here, and Vonnegut has always been adamant that he doesn’t write science fiction. I say, “real” fiction is welcome to him.
Thanks, tom. I was worried that he had lost access to computer again. I guess he’ll just be back when he’s back.
Ellison…what can you say about a man who is friends with Tom Snyder?
He can (and will) be a rude little snot, but call him down on it, and he might back down. (OK, so I called him a nasty-natured ChickenShitF’er.) He was very polite after that…
I was at a booksigning, buying a couple hundred bucks worth of gifts and a book or four for myself, 3 weeks post cancer surgery. The shop owners were kind enough to let me sit and wait, rather than stand in line. H. E. made some snide comments, and I blasted him. (This is the tenderhearted soul whe was distraught at his Mom’s death from cancer after she’d had to have what HE described in print as a hysterectomy with a chainsaw. He then rags on ME for appreciating a little kindness after the same kind experience.)
He definitely backed down when the receipt for the books (on which I had written who they were for, NOT requesting personized inscriptions, however) was flipped over and he saw the total. Money is often a motivation for less shit from a writer…
And the mind that wrote The Glass Teat gets several passes in The Asshole Olympics from me. I actually prefer his commentaries to his fiction writing most of the time, even if I disagree with him. The little fucker has style points enough to get him into Heaven, no matter what.
Pedantic? Only for humorous effect, as far as I can see.
Irritating? Well, your mileage obviously varies.
Self-important? Um, no.
Yes, we are talking science fiction here, and in the great majority of his books, Vonnegut has some elements of science fiction. I find his books a melange of various styles. I don’t have the exact quote handy (I think it’s in Palm Sunday) but here’s one thing he said about the science fiction label: “Early on, I was put into a file drawer labeled ‘science fiction,’ which many critics mistake for a urinal. I have been a sore-headed occupant ever since.”
I will reread FF and reconsider my opinion.
Vonnegut is literature. Phil Farmer and Ursula LeGuinn are science fiction. Heinlien is penny-a-word hackery (though one full step above L. Ron, may his nuts toast in a microwave forever, amen).
I have spoken. Tremble and obey.
Who can not like The Golden Globe and Steel Beach? And dismiss it with a flippant “Married. Very Married,” comment? Varley’s great, and I wish he wrote more.
Now Harlan, he may have a personality as unsightly as James Brown, but I’m in it for his writing, not for his views on anything. It’s not like he’s a politician-- he’s a fucking writer.
Varley is pretty cool. I think the “very married” comment refers to his somewhat relentless feminism, which detracts from his…
What, honey? Me? Oh, just posting, nothing important. Yes, dear. Right away, my dove…
I think Hubbard got paid by the yard. He had to have been the ultimate hack.
I think there’s a difference here between “hackery” and “craftsmanship.” There is a uniquely american style, noticable in such artists as Mark Twain, R.A.H., Bruce Springsteen, and Norman Rockwell, of well constructed commercial art. Plain and solid, but well made.
If only I could get my Doctor Who movie made. It would be AWESOME. I can’t decide between Tim Roth and Edward Norton as the Doc, though.
I can’t believe this is a pit thread. You guys are going to get thrown out for being too nice. Not to mention too interesting.
Just wanted to chime in on the complaints about the Doctor Who costumes. They were not only low budget costumes, they were probably VERY OLD low budget costumes. The Doctor has been around forever. (Now you’ve gotten me curious and I’m going to have to look up the timeline of the show. Nuts.)
If I remember correctly, it was also a children’s show, which would have put it even further on the back burner.
Anyone have any spleen to vent over the Dr. Who movie that Fox did? I mostly liked it except for two things. The Doctor does not kiss and he’s bloody not half human.
Well, you wouldn’t expect a mild-mannered, conciliatory fellow like Harlan Ellison to draw much ire. It’s like starting a Pit thread on Mr. Rogers or something.
As a Doctor Who fan, I have no idea what you mean by this. There never was a two-hour American-made telemovie. You must be thinking of a different franchise.
Mark Twain and Heinlien mentioned approvingly in the same breath! I reel, I stagger, I puke my guts out.
I’ve corresponded with and met Harlan Ellison, and am a long-time fan. Yes, he can be an obnoxious, crotchety bastard, but I assure you it’s a front. He’s actually a stand-up guy. Also, he wa quite a womanizer in his day, but he’s been married to the same woman now for going on 20 years, and he’s definitely changed his ways. He’s irreverent, outspoken, opinionated, and cynical, but he’s also a genius AND a good friend.
I’d like to hear the story about how he lied to you, Wendell Wagner. Do tell.
So ask him when he’s going to rise up and lead the counter-revolution against the treacly glut of swordnsorcery, dragon-infested, bodice ripping, tree-hugging hippy crap that molders in every bookstore I see!
Arise, Sir Harlequin! Smite the Infidel! Son of the Return of the Revenge of Dangerous Visions!!
Well, me for one. I really liked Varley’s earlier stuff. One reviewer said Varley once wrote like a young Heinlein (and bugger off, Luci). In Steel Beach, he wrote like an old Heinlein.
Maybe I’ll try Golden Globe, perhaps he’s improved since then.
Well, I guess I’m fucked as far as the Science Fiction Taste and Discernment Olympics[sup]tm[/sup] goes.
I’ve read and appreciated all Varley and Heinlein I can get my smeggy little hands on. I don’t always agree with them, but always try to see what their point is, and IMO, their grasp of the human condition is pretty spot-on.
Ellison, well, I’ve been meaning to read more of his stuff for about 20 years. Guess I ought to get with it, eh?
FTR, Mr. Ellison will be 69 years of age, tomorrow, 5-27-03.
Sir Rhosis
Rather be buggered than read another word of that sorry old hack! That a tree had to die to make Stranger drivel in print…
But Varley is cool, no argument there. Is he the one who wrote the story about the colony of deaf-mutes? Heartbreaker.