If Heinlein was a “hack,” he was, and remains a very respected “hack” of the science fiction field.
Admit it, elucidator, you just don’t get Heinlein.
Sure. Stephen King sells books too. Got a point? Hell, I know people who would swear that Phillip K. Dickhead is a genius! Go figure.
elucidator, yes I have a point.
I really don’t appreciate snobbery as you’ve been showing. Yup, S. King sells a shitload of books. Some are good (IMO), some are crap (IMO).
Philip K. Dick had atrocious prose, but his story ideas were, IMO, pretty ingenious. YMMV
Perhaps you should just restrict your reading to those books raved about by critics. Lots of books, but I can’t imagine a more boring library.
I love Ellison’s writing, and don’t have a problem with his gadfly persona; I admire someone who has strong feelings and sticks to them, and ain’t afraid to be the stick up some soft asses.
I really want to stand up for Harlan, though, in light of the 'little fuck" story, apocryphal as it may be, because it paints him as a insensitive lecher. I’ve posted this here before, but here’s another go-round.
17 years ago, Harlan gave a lecture here in Chapel Hill, NC. Being a fan, I went. At the after lecture folderol, he was complimentary of my looks; I figgered it was because I was a small person, like him. There’s a story in between this, but I’ll just forward it to the fact that he came to the restaurant I waitressed at,( his sci-fi boy drivers were regulars) and wanted to talk to me. Even asked the management to give me a break, which made the sci-fi boys working there gape in awe. What I’d like to best impress is that Harlan was very sweet, and a gentleman. We had a nice conversation, even though my young sci-fi girl fan self was overwhelmed at that attention… .He could have easily tried to take advantage of that, but was instead a kind heart, with wonderful conversation.
YMMV on Harlan, but my experience was a swell one.
I think your photo indicates it was your looks not your height.
Tom, I really can’t figger what you mean, honest…
Oh, I just figgered it,blush
I am slow with that sort of thing…
Ellison has earned his reputation as being something of an asshole, and he has earned it well. An old friend of mine who used to work at Mile High Comics met him a number of times, and Ellison never failed to hit on her, sometimes a bit offensively. I’ve seen a great deal of evidence for his earned title.
However, he has three saving graces in my book. And they make up for everything.
First, as has been mentioned by a number of people, he is a damn fine writer. Whether reading his film reviews in Harlan Ellison’s Watching or his stories in Strange Wine, I often find myself laughing out loud, or shaking my head in wonder, or occasionally, sniffling back tears. He’s a writer capable of deeply moving work. And, for all his vitriol delivered against Star Trek (most of which is due to his own personal experience, I believe), he nevertheless penned one of its best episodes.
Second, Ellison deserves credit for recognizing talent, and in particular for encouraging one of my favorite writers, Dan Simmons, to continue writing, just as Simmons was ready to give it up for good. Having read the somewhat infamous account (in which Ellison decimates one hopeful writer’s story, then goes on to praise Simmon’s story effusively) from both Simmons’ and Ellison’s perspective, it seems to me that even if Ellison contributed nothing else to this world, he helped convince Dan Simmons to continue writing. For that, I owe him big.
Third, I met Ellison once. It was a short meeting, but I found him to be bright and entertaining. It was at a comic convention for comic retailers, in Atlanta, about 10 years ago now. I was part of a very long line, and I had a number of things for Ellison to sign, some for me, some for friends, some for my store. One of the items for me was his issue of Detective Comics (still have it, somewhere), and one of the others was Heroes for Hope, an X-Men benefit comic which Ellison had contributed a few pages to. While he signed the pages he had written, Ellison told me the story of how he swindled Marvel Comics, managing to keep the original Frank Miller pencil drawings for his pages and sending photostats on to Marvel to be inked for the comic. My only response was, “Damn, man, you kick ass,” or something along those lines. He seemed pleased. The people behind in line were furious with me, I’m sure, as I was talking to Ellison for a good 10 minutes, but it was worth it.
Because, really, he does kick ass. In so many ways, most of them good. 
One thing I can say about Harlan Ellison - that guy has a much better work ethic than I do. He might be an ass, he might buy the publishing rights to zillions of stories and then never publish the suckers, he might have gotten pretty darn paunchy in his old age, but he would never spend a Monday doing yard work and monkeying around on the internet when he had a major deliverable due Wednesday. Mo-Fo has churned out an awful lot of stuff. And edited. And taught classes. And he probably doesn’t still have a few weeds behind his garage. Even the most ferocious detractors must give him his due.
I take it that some of the poster in this thread write or hope to write science fiction. Do any of you think Ellison managed to be a rake before he was famous? Where would he have found the time?
Boy, you go away for the weekend and look what pops up.
Sorry I missed this one earlier. But let me set down my own prejudices in some of these matters:
1.) I like Harlan Ellison, especially his vitriolic reviews. Reading him tearing apart Outland is a great experience, and I agree with every word. His forward to Phoenix without Ashes and his many writings about Roddenbery and “City on the Edge of Forever” I read and re-read. I like his scripts, several of which have been published. Curiously, it’s his fiction – especially his old shorter fiction – I’m not all that fond of.
2.) Number of the Beast was the first Heinlein book I read when it was brand=spanking new. I opened it with trembling hands, and was unbelievably disappointed. His worst work, bar none.
3.) I first heard about Doctor Who when it first came out in Britain. Forrest J. Ackerman’s monster-magazine bible Famous Monsters of Filmland ran articles on it and pictures from it. I burned to see this series. But, of course, I couldn’t. I was in the USA, and it didn’t run here. Then, in the 1970s, they started running it on PBS. I excitedly tuned in and…it was awful! I could not begin to understand people’s enthusiasm for this show. I’ve given it a decent chance, and have seen several Doctors. It’s not the show’s Britishness – I loved The Avengers and The Prisoner and random other offerings. Peter Nicholls’ Science Fiction Encyclopedia claimed it was better than Star Trek, a claim I’ll hotly dispute. I think Nicholls and Klute’s update says the same. The funny thing is, I have lots of Whovian friends. Heck, I’m married to a Who fan. Our union has, thus far, survived our disagreement on this vital topic.
I remember him doing the same thing at the 1978 Worldcon in Phoenix, because Arizona hadn’t ratified the ERA.
I’m not a Dr. Who expert by any means, but I also recall channel-surfing one night and catching bits of an American-made Dr. Who movie on Fox Television. Dunno if it was two hours, but it was definitely Fox and definitely American-made.
^^^I think (my opinion, only) that the poster who disavows there was an American co-produced “Who” movie is simply attempting to convince him-/herself that it never happened.
Most Who fans (especially from the UK) I know hardly acknowledge it. I thought it was “so-so” myself.
Happy Birthday, Harlan!
Sir Rhosis
The happiest of birthdays to Jefty Cordwainer Deathbird, the scourge of mediocrity and arch-enemy of all that is “skiffy”.
Au contraire. Behold the horror that was Fox’s Doctor Who. Having attended the premiere Dr. Who convention in the U.S., Gallifrey, I can assure you that, much like Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, McGann’s Doctor is considered to be mostly apocryphal.
Can’t say much about Ellison, as I’ve never met him in person, but the word in SMOFing circles is that he’s a bear of a guest. He brings in the fans, though, and certainly has a load of talent.
[shameless plug]
Would this be a good time to mention that David Gerrold is a Guest of Honor at the convention I’m running next year, Gaylaxicon 2004?
[/shameless plug]
And Ben, Gerrold won the Hugo and Nebula not too long ago for The Martian Child (and we’ll find out Friday if he’ll win the Lambda for it), and won a Spectrum last year for Jumping Off The Planet, so I daresay he’s been doing some worthwhile work lately.
Esprix
Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh!
The movie is mostly useless (as I think Terrifel was trying to convey to us), but McGann’s the Eighth Doctor and he’s damn good at it too. The audio dramas he’s been in have been great, especially his second season. Colin Baker has redeemed himself as well.
Now, see, this is what I’m talking about. Obviously people who are familiar with Paul McGann’s highly entertaining “Eighth Doctor” audio dramas have mistakenly conflated him with the television show, resulting in a strange mass hallucination that there was some kind of TV movie involved. Sadly, science fiction fans seem to be prone to this sort of dissociative disorder, as evidenced by Esprix’ mention of the mythical Star Trek V. Many Trek fans will insist that they have seen such a film, yet when pressed for details, they can only offer such improbabilities as “Spock has a happy brother,” or, “Uhura dances naked.” Sad, really. I’ve also heard people going on about a supposed sequel to the Highlander movie.
It is even so with the Doctor Who telemovie: IT NEVER HAPPENED. There were no femmy-voiced Daleks, no Eye of Harmony, no Master-in-a-Box (Just Add Water!), no car chases, no "Oh, by the way, babe, I’m half-human, I guess I just forgot to mention it over the last quarter-decade, now pardon me as I ram my tongue down your throat." It was all a delusion, a manifestation of the collective unconscious, much like the “Old Hag” hallucination or Byrd’s lost radio transmission.
I mean, think about it for a second; does it make any sense at all that the BBC would just hand over the longest-running science-fiction programme in history to the Americans, just so they could cock it all up? Of course not! I don’t care how many web sites you link to; you can also link to “evidence” for alien abductions and Freemason conspiracies, but that doesn’t make them real either.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, “I would sooner believe that a thousand websites should lie, than that a half-human Time Lord should go to America.”
Or, alternately, to quote Tom Servo, “If I run out of vomit, can I have some of yours?”
Ask Gerrold when the hell he’s going to finish that Chtorr series…and tell him we know the intelligence is in the quills. Pretty much everyone’s figured that out by now.
Is this the Sci-Fi convention that finally brings together the cosmic themes of homosexuality and constipation?