Harley-Davidsons = noise pollution?

Great Debates
21

I would love to see any unbiased study that backs up “loud pipes save lives”. IMO, it is simply “auditory agression”. Maybe I should be safer too, and take the mufflers off of my dual-exhaust Mustang GT. Then I can also see how Harley riders like it when I come up next to them and blip my throttle at a light. They’ll think the World is coming to an end.

I also find it highly ironic that 100% of the people I know who ride a Harley and claim that “loud pipes save lives” apparently do not believe that “helmets save lives”, since five out of five of them never wear helmets. And given the intense lobbying by motorcycle clubs against mandatory helmet laws, I find the expressed concern for safety via “loud pipes” to be…well, interesting.

Of course, on that last bit I don’t care. They can have their big-ass bike, ride without a helmet, hell ride naked even, it’s their option, IMO. But the noise is loud enough to cause physical pain in bystanders and other people in traffic (and myself), and I’ve seen no concrete justification for that.

22

The “Loud Pipes Save Lives” thing is really a justification. Anyone who actually thinks that it’s true should try this:
Get in a modern, well soundproofed car, maybe turn the radio on, and bring a couple people with you who like to chat. Then have a friend try and sneak up on you with their Harley. I guaran-damn-tee that they’ll be right up on you before you hear them.
Only the loudest, baffle-less pipes really make enough noise to be heard inside a sealed up car. Bikers get hit because drivers aren’t paying attention, and this goes for audio-attention as well.
I do not like the straight, drag-style pipes which several posters have complained cause actual pain, for the same reason. I think they’re disrespectful and obnoxious. I’m sure my neighbors think the same thing of me at 7 a.m., but I try to keep it down. I don’t sit at lights and gun the engine for no reason, and I don’t make as much noise as possible when leaving the light.
I like less-muffled Harleys because they sound cool when idling or just tooling along. That bubbly “potato-potato-potato” sound is great.

23

Just to clarify - less-muffled is fine with me, gratefuldavidson. Un-muffled straight-pipe Harleys are the ones that I am bitching about.

24

Some of them think that having a helmet reduces their vision and hearing and makes it more likely that they’ll get into an accident. Of course with all that lound noise coming from their bikes I don’t see how they can hear a damn thing. I wonder if those people tooling around on loud bikes sans helmet experience hearing loss.

Marc

25

“Loud pipes save lives” - that was the phrase that I was looking for earlier. And I’m glad to see that I’m not crazy (well, at least not alone) in finding this rationalization for auditory aggression to be weak.

26

My husband has a Yamaha Royal Star - 1300cc, I think - that is amazingly quiet. But it has a big rack of lights across the front that makes it very visible. You combine that with constant vigilance and knowing that most other drivers are idiots, and you don’t need to be noisy to be a safe biker.

27

My bike is my main mode of transport, not a hobby like many Harleys are, image means nothing to me, loud pipes are just that.

When I’m riding in city traffic I can hear car drivers coming up behind me, with loud pipes I wouldn’t.

You can get a lot of information about the unseen car too, is it being revved hard possibly meaning some young idiot brain, is it just creepng along, or are they decelarating in time to stop before they hit you.

Of course this does not work at cruising speed.

Riding a bike is completely differant to driving a car but unfortunately many Harley riders are only dry weekend warriors and they ride like they drive, occasionaly winding on the throttle and trying to make use of the limited power available, and usually they do it in innappropriate situations.

If you’re scudding along at a nice steady 80 or so loud pipes will not alert the driver who pulls out in front of you or does a turn across you since he will only hear you moments before you collide.

If you are crazy enough to spend significant periods of time directly alongside a moving vehicle while riding on your bike you will get sideswiped, and that is about the only time that loud pipes might have a useful effect, a much better strategy is to realise that car and wagon drivers lane swap unexpectedly and ride accordingly.

It doesn’t help that Harleys are pretty near the most unwieldy, unmanouverable bikes there are, making emergency direction changes difficult and those poor brakes don’t help either.

Riding involves planning ahead and Harleys need more of it than just about any other bike there is, loud pipes are no substitute for that, nor are they any kind of justification, that phrase is just a sound bite and rolls off the tongue easily but it’s bollocks.

Good driving, protective clothing and advanced training saves lives, it really is as easy as that.

28

Actually, with loud pipes you can hear the cars coming up on you better. When someone approachs me from the rear, I can hear the change in my exhaust sound dramatically as the car gets closer. Evan with a quiet bike, you cant hear the noise of a car engine most of the time, but the change in the sound is dramatic without baffles.

And no, I don’t wear a helmet because I think they are unsafe. I wear a seatbelt, because it is safer, but helmets make you more likely to get into an accident, and in many accident cause more sever injurys than they prevent.
You know, it really pisses me off that people just seem to want to believe the worse about other people. Myself, and severl others here have stated why we run loud pipes, and even that we would rather run quieter, but fear for our safety. Then we have several people who have to chime in “No, you’re a liar, you just wanna be mean and act tough.”, despite the logical reasons that we put forth. Statements like this are bigoted and ignorant. Anthracite, if you get sideswiped in your mustang, you have a whole lot more protecting you than we do. That said, if you wanna run open exhaust, go ahead. It won’t bother me. Just don’t try to tell me why I do something a certain way. You don’t know anything about me. I run open pipes because my personal experiances have shown me to do otherwise is dangerous. I don’t wear a helmet because the statistics and the articles I have read, and my personal experiances tell me that it is dangerous to do so.

Even it were proven beyond any doubt tomorrow that I am wrong, and it is safer to wear a helmet, and to run mufflers, it would not in any way change the reason that I ride this way today.

29

**
Although I own a car now, motorcycle was my main transport for years. Image means nothing to me either. Loud pipes have nothing to do with image(for me)

**
with loud pipes, you hear the differance in your exhaust note, sorta like sonar.

**
Sorry, but this just isn’t true. I can hear a harley for a pretty good distance. People look for it, because it doesnt sound like a car. If I am approaching a parking lot or intersection where someone is starting to pull out, or make a left turn in front of me, I look for Eye contact. If they don’t see me, I pull in the clutch and rev my motor. They jerk their head around and see me, and dont kill me. When I rode say, my old BMW, that didnt work. They would just pull on out.

**
This is just plain bike bigotry, something the SDMB is for the most part free from, until now. I never put down other makes of bikes, and have owned many differant nationalitys of motorcycles. Harleys are cruisers. They handle great for what they are ment to do, and they stop just fine. No, they wont compete with a ducati on a race track, niether will a caddilac or a pickup compare with a corvette.

**
No, its not.

Thats something we both can agree on.

30

[/quote**
It seems times of changed. Used to be that all you jap bike riders go ignored, while we couldnt ride down the streets with out getting pulled over, harrassed,and threatened. I remeber me and xeqter getting pulled over about 12 years ago by no less than eight fort worth police cars. It took them 30 minutes just to document xeqter’s tattoos(hes a tattoo artist). I have been refused service at many places because I rode a motorcycle(even when I rode a BSA). Even during the worst of the police harrasment era, cops wouldnt write loud pipe tickets around here. They even told me that they didnt because of the saftey factor, so I guess the police are full of shit too…

What changed everything, IMHO is that now there are so many Yuppie lawyer types riding harleys, that they leave us alone. The sport bike crowd has a rep for going fast, so they started hassleing them. No matter what it still sucks. I respect anyone on two wheels. I figure, we are in it togeather, and I wave to anyone riding.

31

<old cranky man>
You think you have problems?
Let me tell you a few things. I live on the Near North side of Chicago, what used to be the party central (Rush Street) area. For some reason, these idiots cruise the area with no mufflers at 2 or 3 in the morning. The Japanese bikes are worse, with their whiny motors. At that time in the morning, who are you trying to impress?? winos? One woman thinks she’s really hot shit, cruises the area constantly - are we to be especially impressed with a woman on a bike??? She was a little stunned (from the look on her face, anyway) when she cruised by me and I said “Get a muffler!” I think she thought I was going to hit on her.
</old cranky man>

Thanks to the board for letting me vent - I have wanted to say this for a long time, but I really can’t complain too much - the neighborhood was noisier when I moved in than it is now!!

32

I just got a '78 Yamaha xs650 running. It’s a 4stroke vertical twin. I bought it with 15,000 miles on it. Original everything. With only 15,000 miles on the exhaust system it’s pretty darn loud for being stock. I guess it was Yamaha’s way of catering to the public.

It’s not as bad as a lot of bikes. I’ll admit that I like the sound, and if there is a little safety benefit, I’ll take it.

You just have to be considerate. When I ride it to work it’s generally real early. I keep it in a high gear and just put along until I get to a highway (2 lane, in the mountains so its very isolated anyway).

33

Gazoo,

Halsted and Armitage here…same problem, however I’d say the hogs are much worse, flat out volume.

34

Alright, everybody – as they say on SNL – simmadownow.

Good. Now…

I ride a motorcycle – a quiet Japanese one. I also drive a car. And for the sake of full disclosure, I have two bicycles which I ride all over town. I walk a lot too.

To bdgr and all the rest of the loud-pipe set, let me say that if you ride loud bikes because of safety concerns I can appreciate your motives.

But here’s the thing you’re not addressing. Your safety is coming at someone else’s expense – the annoyance, pain and sleeplessness of others.

Most, if not all, of the other drivers are using public roads without inconveniencing anyone. Someone could, for example drive at night, in traffic, with their brights on all the time, or beep their horn every three seconds, or drive at 15 MPH – all in the name of their personal safety. But society would find it very annoying and dangerous (to them, not you) so the law does not allow it.

Society basically tells us motorcyclists that if we comply with the regulations they establish through laws (headlight on, equipment that passes inspection, helmets if required, no lane splitting if illegal, NO EXCESS NOISE, etc.) they will allow us to use public roads and accord us the rights of other motor vehicles. This is the type of reasonable trade-off that citzens make every day when they interact in society.

Now you may claim that motorcycle riding has higher stakes – your life and limb. Agreed. But you knew that going in; no one puts a gun to your head to ride.

So you want to ride safer? No one has a problem with that. Wear a suit of armor for all anyone cares. But if you want to pop my mom’s eardrums instead, sorry, no dice.

35

Personally, I’d like to see a study done on drivers’ reflex times in the presence of excessive noise. I’ve noticed that people tend be scattered and flustered when ambient noise gets above a certain level, and there’s nothing like a loud, persistent roar to make people do stupid things.

Ever see someone turn down the stereo while looking for an address? People need quiet to concentrate.

In other words, your loud pipes may be causing accidents, too. And I’ve presented just as much evidence supporting my theory as the “Loud Pipes Save Lives” advocates here.

36

**
k

I try and minimize this as much as possible. I don’t rev my motor at stop lights unneccesarily, keep it in High gear when driving through residential areas at night etc…and I know there are some that abuse it…

**
Agreed, but I will try and minimize that risk as much as I can.

37

Don’t have a lot to add to the debate - I’ll buy a stock Yamaha Diversion 600 in about a month, if all is well and I pass my exam… stock exhaust, too. Winy four-cylinder and all that. :wink:

(Where’s Spiny “Duke” Norman when you need him??)

But I gotta say: that link was hilarious!!

I especially loved the GoldWing section.

:smiley:

38

I have never owned a motorcycle, I have no idea how to ride one. I would LOVE to but I never have. I used to laugh at the “loud pipes save lives” bumper stickers I would see and hated the thunderous noise. About three times in my driving career however I have nearly changed lanes into a motorcyle that made no sound. Each time they were going fast enough that I would check my side mirror, see nothing, then check my rear view see nothing, as they had just changed lanes to pass me, and begin to move over. During head check I would see them of course and it SCARED the shit out of me. Can’t imagine what they felt like. I’ve NEVER had that happen with a harley that you can HEAR come from behind you. After the incidents I took special notice to check it out and see if it was true. In my view and experience it is.

However, I did have a neighbor (if you can call it that) that lived behind me that would work on his Harley between the hours of 12 and 3 am. Cranking the throttle in his garage. He was an idiot and should die like such… well at least I thought so at 2am…

39

Why do you think a helmet is unsafe? Do you have any proof that they are unsafe, or will “cause more severe injuries than they prevent”?

OK, here is what I don’t understand. You say that you need your loud pipes because it is unsafe not to have them, and yet even if it is proven that you are wrong, you will still use them - proving that thus, it is not safety that drives your decision. Which was my point in my post, was it not? You seem to have proven my own point that you tried to rake me over the coals for.

Don’t get me wrong, and let’s not start a fight over something silly. I support your right to not wear a helmet, not use proven safety gear, and to drive a loud motorcycle. But there has to be a limit to the noise - the noise level from a straight-pipe Harley is simply destructive to bystanders’ hearing - plain and simple. If a piece of “safety gear” can cause physical pain to bystanders and others in traffic…can that really be justified?

Loud - not completely unmuffled.

40

Yeah. Sounds just like the pump out on the Back 40. :rolleyes:

Admit it: You Harley guys like the loud pipes because they piss the rest of us off. You come up with half-assed justifications about “safety” and think we’re dumb enough to believe it. Or are you dumb really enough to believe it?

And the outfits; the only people who think you look good in torn jeans, denim vests, tatoos, and scraggly GRAY beards are you, the skanks you hang out with, and the wannabes you make fun of. Everybody else finds you and your pals creepy.

Sorry, but true.