Harry Potter #7: (SPOILERS APLENTY): Now that you've read it...

Cafe Society
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I so totally agree.

This was my one real area of discontent with the book. On reread, I’ll probably hit some little errors and problems that I will note, but this is a biggie and I don’t think anyone will be able to explain it away.

It would have been so much better (and not added any substantial length to the book), to have had some Slytherins join the good side. When Neville takes Harry and company to the Room of Requirement, they notice that all house banners are represented. “Yes,” says Neville, “a few Slytherins have joined us. Very brave of them.” Later, once the non-combatant students have left, Harry and Neville encounter one of-age Slytherin (Blaise?). Harry gets up in the Slytherin’s face, but Neville holds him back, saying, “No. He’s one of us…” That would have been So Much Better, wouldn’t it?

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Seems to me it’s better to get rid of all the doubtful ones, the ones whose loyalty you can’t count on. Who’d want a pack of potential Dark Lord supporters at their back in a fight like that?

As to continuing to have a Slytherin house after the war, well, perhaps it’s not a bad idea to sort all the malcontents and petty evil twits into one house where you can keep an eye on them.

283

Ultimately, I enjoyed the book, but I think it does illustrate overall what a mediocre writer
Rowling really is. For one, I was hoping that we were finally going to be done with the stuff about Harry not being convinced that Dumbledore was looking out for him. All of the angsty “Oh darn you Dumbledore, you didn’t really love me and you didn’t tell me everything I need to know” business is tired, and it’s essentially in every single book. The resolve that Harry finished with in the end of the last book gave me a false hope that we were done with that.

Rowling has essentially written the same book seven times - Harry must defeat Voldemort with only cryptic assistance from Dumbledore and the timely help of his friends.

The wandering around with no particular place to go business in the middle of the book was stagnant and uninteresting. Ultimately, it was irrelevant to the story. At one point, I looked at the amount of pages I had covered and had left to go, and realized I was nearly halfway through and they hadn’t even done away with the locket yet, let alone had any idea where the other Horcruxes were.

The wedding preparations at the beginning of the book - also completely irrelevant to the plot, and involved very minor characters anyway. I felt like it really took the energy out of the story (little did I realize that we were headed straight for the Horse Latitudes of the “wandering around aimlessly for months” portion of the book anyways).

I liked the bit about the cursed and seemingly living jewelry that emotionally and physically weighs down the wearer and makes them think malicious and traitorous thoughts…when it involved a Hobbit.

If the wandering about was supposed to be made interesting by being occasionally punctuated with being captured, it didn’t for me.

The whole Deathly Hallows business is ultimately a huge red herring. Was this the skeleton of a plot direction that Rowling abandoned, but left in the book anyways? What was the point of Dumbledore making them explicitly aware of them, only to have them avoid them? It’s so unrealistic that Rowling expressly has the characters describe how unrealistic it is.

I agree with the observation that there’s just too many deus ex machina moments in the book.

If people can deliver messages via patronus, why haven’t they done so in the many other times in the series that such an ability would have been quite handy?

About the part with the whole seven Harrys and the 13 other people risking their lives to get him out safely…why doesn’t he just put on his cloak and walk down to the nearest city bus stop?

Once she got to the mid-point of the book, the story started rolling, and was interesting and enjoyable. I think she tied things up well, ultimately, if predictably.

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I just think that’s a terrible message for the books to have: that one’s destiny as an untrustworthy, potentially evil git is set at the age of 11.

285

Bought the book about 1 AM Sunday morning, finished reading it (with some substantial breaks) about 10 PM Sunday night.

I loved this book. Most of my predictions were way off-base (I think the only thing I got right was that Snape is working against Voldemort), but the book was a great ride. I won’t repeat stuff that many other people wrote, but some thoughts I’d like to add to this thread are:

[ul]
[li]I was very afraid, once we learned of the Deathly Hallows, that Harry was going to use them and somehow not need to destroy the Horcruxes. I would have been very pissed off at JKR if the whole Horcrux thing was nothing more than a red herring. I’m glad it wasn’t.[/li][li]I liked how no one was given some sort of heroic “redemption” scene. Malfoy turned out to be less evil, and less of a nemesis to Harry, than in the first 6 books, but did not turn hero. Percy joined the fight, but did not die, which would have been way too trite. Snape was vindicated, but didn’t go out in a blaze of glory or take anyone with him.[/li][li]Snape may have been working for the right side, but he was still a bastard, and I still hate the character. Would it have blown his cover that badly if he actually treated Harry a little more nicely? From the minute Harry came to school, he accused Harry, orphaned since infancy, of wanting attention and fame, and belitted him at every opportunity. His unrequited love for Lily Evans-Potter and understandable hatred for James doesn’t excuse that crap.[/li][li]Give both Snape and Dumbledore demerits for not confiding to other members of the Order, in advance, that the death at the end of Book 6 was all part of a plan. Even if JKR meant to keep the readers in suspense, it would have made things much easier for the Order if they knew Snape was still their inside man on Voldemort and not the other way around.[/li][li]I was very glad when the blue eye in the mirror turned out to be Aberforth Dumbledore and not that Albus Dumbledore somehow survived. The “Kings Crossing” scene was a bit ambiguous on Dumbledore’s death, though. Was Harry partially in the afterlife, communing Dumbledore’s real soul? Was it some power of the resurrection stone that allowed Harry to recall Dumbledore to his mind when he needed him then? Was he just a construct of Harry’s mind as a mechanism for Harry to work out information he already knew but hadn’t yet put together?[/li][li]Am I the only one who thought “Braveheart” when Kreacher led the charge of the House-Elves?[/li][li]Was almost in tears when Harry went to what he expected to be his own death, using his dead relatives and friends to give him strength. Though Dumbledore’s absence from that scene was pretty gaping.[/li][li]Like most of you, I too wish the epilogue gave a little more info. My own imagination says that Arthur Weasley is now Minister of Magic (delegating most of the work to Percy while he fiddles with Muggle stuff) and that Harry, having had so much responsibility on his shoulders as a youth, is in a much more relaxed occupation - Seeker for the Chudley Cannons, finally bringing Ron’s favorite team some glory.[/li][/ul]

Oh, one thing that I don’t recall seeing explained - how did Harry’s wand act of its own accord during the fight where Hedwig died?

286

Now that I think about it, I think the goblin should have tried to assisinate Harry in the epilogue, for revenge over tricking him out of the sword. Or maybe just all the characters could relate the event to each other, for no particular reason. :slight_smile:

287

In one of Dumbledore’s conversations with Snape, Dumbledore says that he sometimes thinks they sort too soon.

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Dumbledore explains the wand thing in King’s Crossing.

I don’t think Dumbledore could have confided in anyone but Snape (and even lies to Snape, really, because he suspects that Harry will live, but plays that he doesn’t and is just Machivellian). Anyone else could have been caught and tortured/magically forced to give up tha secret. Snape was the safest member of the Order in that respect both because he was such a powerful Occulmens and because he was the one member the Death Eaters had no real reason to put to the question in the first place.

The last movie is going to be a mess. The trio spend a large portion of it Polyjuiced as random adults (I suspect they’ll cut out the Godric’s Hollow polyjuice), and lots of time reading key plot points. Killing spells that spill no blood are a boon towards the ratings, but having chunks of Ron and George ripped off? Knives in Dobby? Self strangulation? Snape litterally BLEEDING out his final confession to Harry? Oooof.

289

That’s true, but Rowling still chose not to deal with any possible changes of heart for the actual Slytherin students in the story.

I chalk it up to thoughtlessness on her part, but it is the main flaw of the book for me.

290

I don’t have much else new to add, but a previous poster asked about Ron passing the Muggle driving test - whether it meant Muggles and Wizards had a more open relationship.

I took it to mean that Hermione was able to go to Australia and bring back her parents. It would make sense that Ron would want to have a driver’s license. When interacting with his Muggle in-laws, it would be nice to look as Muggle as possible, driving to their house to visit.

291

My suspicion is that Rowling herself is still trying to figure out how all the characters ended up and is leaving enough loose ends that she can pick up when she writes Potter: The Next Generation (which, now that I think about it, would make an interesting sit-com).

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Thought so, but the way some people put it, he wasn’t even bothering to help anyone.

I thought maybe it was just “death” itself. But I like your idea better.
One loose end that bothers me-what DID Dudley see when the Dementors attacked him?

293

When Molly jumped in to fight Bellatrix, did anyone else flashback to Sigourney Weaver in Aliens…“GET AWAY FROM HER, YOU BITCH!”

294

Similarly, isn’t Dumbledore’s hand whole on the cover of the US edition of HBP?

295

I know. I think it would have been cool if he had done somethnig using a potion. I can see the scene now: after everybody has gone inside to get away from the giants, Harry sees Fenrir Greyback about to bite someone. (Perhaps he wants to get revenge on Trelawney for hitting him with the crystal ball.) Harry drops his cloak and confronts Fenrir, but the werewolf pulls Trelawney in front of him as a shield. As Harry is weighing his options, Slughorn steps up and says something like, “I’ll handle this.” Fenrir laughs and is like, “what are you going to do, old man?” Slughorn answers him by pulling out a vial of light grey fluid. A look of horror spreads over Fenrir’s face. “Silver mist! You wouldn’t!” Slughorn uses wingardum leviosa to smash the vial into the wall behind Fenrir, and a silvery mist immediately fills the area. Fenrir drops Trelawney and begins coughing and weezing like an asthmatic. Harry knows from his DADA classes that this potion is lethal to werewolves and vampires, but harmless to anyone else. Slughorn goes over to help Trelawney while Harry pulls his cloak over himself to return to the battle. Slughorn calls out after him, “Warn Lupin about the mist!” Harry doesn’t have the heart to tell him that Lupin is dead. He just crosses into the Great Hall.

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-I like how we find out that Dumbldore isn’t perfect, and see his flaws. It did bug me just a bit that it seemed that Grindelwald WASN’T involved with the Axis powers in WWII, like I suspected.

-I would have liked to see Flitwick going medieval on Griphook’s traitor-ass, when you remember that Flitwick is part Goblin himself.

-We FINALLY find the secret of the Grey Lady and the Bloody Baron. I love it!

-I think Percy should have died in the battle rather than Fred. NOT because I hate Percy or anything. I just think it would have been all the more poignant-Percy finally comes back to his family-only to die defending them. Well, and I love the Weasley Twins. I’m thinking that maybe Ron works with George for the Wizarding Wheezes?

-One loose end that bothers me-what DID Dudley see when the Dementors attacked him? I think she really dropped the ball on that one. Although I liked seeing Dudley make his peace with Harry.

-I cried mostly when Hedwig, Fred, and Dobby died. Hedwig because she was just an innocent caught up in a battle she didn’t really have anything to do with. AND she reminded me of two of my cats, Gypsy and Misty. Very haughty and huffy with you when you annoy them. But also very affectionate and loyal. And Misty is white and fluffy-just like Hedwig.

-Fred, because, as I said, I adore the twins, and it’s just not right, with George losing his ear AND his best friend/brother.

-Dobby, because he, well, I just love little Dobby. Buried with his socks, too. sniff

ETA: Diceman-oooh, good one! Perhaps there just wasn’t enough “time”, per se, to include everyone.

297

Hell yes. I agree, she’s been all over the map on this, and it’s an example of poor writing. (Never mind what someone in McGonagall’s situation should do IRL, we’re talking about the writer’s message here.) I thought it was utterly stupid to have every single student Slytherin pretty much be evil, but then have a little coda with Harry lauding Snape as a good Slytherin. Either write it so Slytherins are evil (which would be dumb and literarily uninteresting, but at least consistent) or write it so Slytherins are perhaps less forthright and inclusive, but not inherently evil.

I don’t understand how she could create Snape, a character who is inarguably a twat, yet on the side of good overall, and then be so hamfisted with Slytherin.

Oh, another questionable plot point - the kids decide to destroy the locket with Gryffindor’s sword, easy peasy, no concerns. Except as far as they know, when Dumbledore used the sword on the ring, it permanently chicken-fried his hand. (No one knows he tried to *use *the ring first, and that’s what got him.) So shouldn’t they have had some misgivings and fears about destroying their first horcrux?

298

That would have been trite, not poignant, in my opinion.

In wars, who lives and dies isn’t always fair. Dobby didn’t deserve to die. It’s horrible that both Lupin and Tonks are killed, but that’s the way it is. It’s horrible that Fred dies, bit that’s the way it is, and why is his life worth more than Percy’s?

Allow me to add something unrelated: I really hope Rowling never writes about Harry Potter again, or allows anyone else to. I think it would take a lot away from the series, and in fact SUBTRACT from it somewhat, to have an endless parade of “canon” post-Hallows crapola of authorized novels and almanacs of the Potterverse and the kind of shit that pollutes most popular series.

Rowling’s not the best prose writer who ever lived, and her Potterverse does not, from a logic or continuity point of view, stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny, and the outcome was awfully predictable. But…

I have to admit she resolved the series and closed the door the way it had to be closed; I am impressed with the finality and completedness of it. Harry begins the series as a boy without a family, and becomes a man who has a family, which is all he ever wanted. Whether he became an Auror or a Ministry employee or works for the Weasley outfit or is a Quidditch star is, really, irrelevant. The person who took his family away from him - and would never have allowed him to start another - is vanquished. In so doing, Harry went from being primarily concerned about his own problems (not that he was selfish; it’s just normal for an 11-year-old orphan to be occupied with his own problems) to being a man who is willing to give up his life for others.

Sometimes you have to know when to stop painting. I think she stopped at the right time.

299

I didn’t cry when anyone died, but the scenes in any book when Harry gets to see or talk to his parents get me every time. When Harry walks to Voldemort and asks his mom “Stay close to me” I had to take a break from reading for a while. Very reminiscent of Lucy and Susan walking with Aslan, I thought. Garden of Gethsemene.

I thought it was a nice touch that Harry doesn’t actually kill Voldemort, he uses his now “trademark” expilliarmus (sp?) and Voldemort ends up killing himself by his spell rebounding, the same thing that did him in with Harry the first time.

I liked that Snape died the way he did. I didn’t want any “I told you so” moments with him and Harry, that would have cheapened Snape for me. His life was tragic but he made his mistakes too, by choosing to become a death eater in the first place. He was a great character on Rowling’s part.

I need to go back and re-read the Godric’s Hollow portion. Did Nagini actually live inside Bathilda and make her corpse walk around? For how long? That was pretty creepy.

Draco did have a tiny moment of redemption when he did not confirm Harry and his friend’s identities to the Death Eaters. I know he was supposed to be pretty much in shock and Harry’s face was swollen, but I am sure Draco would have been able to tell it was him, especially with the other two.

I found all of the stuff w/ hallows and horcruxes a little confusing in parts, but I am sure with a re-read it will become clearer.

I was wanting more at the end though, it was a little too “happily ever after” for me. Did Harry and co. ever graduate from Hogwarts? I would think Hermione would be especially disappointed not to get her degree or whatever you get. So much has been built up about their classes through the other books that it seems odd not to get any closure there. I agree that the creation of his own family is what is most important to him, though.

Lily is the true heroine of the whole series, IMO!

300

Just a toss-off thing that I thought was amusing: Harry names his son Albus Severus Potter. ASP. Another snake reference. :slight_smile:

I’m sure it’s a coincidence, but it still amused me.

I cried when Hedwig died. I’m not sure why, but that was the death that affected me most. Maybe it’s because, as someone else said, she was an innocent. Plus, I totally didn’t expect it. I was ready for any of the humans to die, but Hedwig didn’t even enter my mind.

It was satisfying to be right about Snape (about him being good, anyway). The spouse didn’t think he was.