Harry Potter-A Satanic Series?

[Skott]

*Originally posted by Captain Amazing *
I can see it, if we’re not careful, descending into insults and stereotypes…

I guess we weren’t careful

**This question is directed to those who think the Harry Potter books are satanic, or teach kids witchcraft. Why do you think that? It’s something I’m actually curious about. **

Well, I’m not sure that I would fall directly into the categories you mentioned, but I can say that I would not want my children (who still have to wait a few years for existence) to read the Harry Potter series.

My two main reasons are a) the violence (esp. at the end of book four) and b) the inability to seperate fantasy from reality. When my kids can overcome these two reasons, then I would allow them to read the books. The age would be dependant on the child.

I am a Christian, dunno if you want to label me fundamentalist; I’m probably a little more liberal with my religious beliefs that the more conservative Christians, but would still be considered conservative (and I’m not necessarily speaking politically). However, I have a friend who is an agnostic and feels the exact same way I do about the series and for the same reasons.

Do I consider them “satanic”? Only to the same degree that I consider Star Wars, Wheel of Time, the Hobbit/Lord of the Rings, and other stories where a supernatural power exists that is not from God to be “satanic”. In other words, I don’t believed that they are inspired by a satanic individual trying to take over my soul, but as long as I can continue to hold my beliefs and to realize that, whether you believe the supernatural aspects are possible or not, these are not things that I want to do or take part in, then I can enjoy the imagination, characters, and plots that creative fiction can give me.

Skott

[dangermom]

*Originally posted by critter_hunter *
A well-known fantasy and science-fiction author, Tracy Hickman is also a devout member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Mormons)

Now isn’t that interesting?

No, it isn’t particularly.
Orson Scott Card is also LDS. See my post above, about the teen reading class I taught? That was an LDS meeting. I’m LDS. Mormons don’t really care about fantasy/SF. They encourage reading. The LDS Church is not a fundamentalist-type church (in fact, fundies can’t stand us).

[Siege]

Freyr posted:

I’ve heard the Fundamentalist refer to Wicca/Paganism as “satanic” but only the most extreme ever included other mainstream faiths as “satanic.”

Actually Freyr, I have heard my own minister refer to “Eastern and New Age” religions as misguided to evil. I am not a Fundamentalist, nor is my church. My church is pretty much mainstream Episcopal. I myself am devout Episcopal, but pagan-friendly. The occaision referred to was during a routine Sunday sermon. Having touched lightly on the subject with some of my fellow parishioners, I suspect that view may be more widestream than some of us would like to think. On the other hand, my minister’s son loves Harry Potter.

Wish the news could be better
CJ
“We could be standing at the top of the world
Instead of sinking further down in the mud.”
Meatloaf

[Freyr]

**Captain Amazing wrote:

Well, Freyr, I think that a lot of fundimentalists would argue that things like wicca, paganism, hinduism, etc, are really Satanism…you know, that you either serve G-d (Christianity, maybe Judaism) or you serve Satan (everybody else).**

If they’re going to claim that any religion other than theirs is “satanism” then all the more reason to laugh at them.

**ricksummon wrote:

You obviously haven’t been hanging around the right fundamentalists, then. Check out Atlantis: The Lost Empire (2001) - Review and/or viewer comments - Christian Spotlight on the Movies - ChristianAnswers.Net, for example. Most of the time, though, fundamentalists don’t condemn Disney for “occultism” as much as for its so-called “pro-gay” practices.**

I guess I haven’t been reading the right publications the Fundamentalists are putting out. Yes, I’ve heard of the Fundamentalist opinion of Disney and the GLBT community. That seems to drown out everything else.

**Duck Duck Goose wrote:

Er, Freyr, many of my Fundie friends have participated for many years in an all-out Disney boycott (because of Disney’s same-sex health insurance policy), so the point about “why don’t Fundies object to Disney cartoons?” doesn’t really hold.**

The point I was making is that Disney cartoons are full of magic, yet the Fundamentalists don’t seem to object that much to such cartoons. But ricksummon corrected me on that.

But, you’re not really saying, “Why don’t they object?”, you’re saying, “Why don’t we get a Fundie media shitstorm every time there’s a Disney re-release of Snow White?” That’s because Disney has been around for so long that it’s just part of the background noise for Fundies. There’s no point in objecting to it publicly any more–it’s obviously here to stay. But Harry Potter is new, and so has to pay some dues.

That’s an interesting take on it. I agree, somewhat.

Also–how can I put this?–Harry Potter is a book (at least, it was a book first), and to people with this mindset, books are threatening in a very subtle way, in a way that cartoons aren’t threatening. It’s hard to explain. These people don’t really like to read, for one thing. They’re aren’t very good at “reading”. I don’t mean in a “literacy” sense, I mean in the sense of being happiest when settled in for the afternoon with a good book. They tend to view “bookish” types (like me) with suspicion.

I don’t know if I agree with this analysis. You seem to be painting the Fundamentalists with a very broad brush of anti-intellectualism.

But the point I’m trying to raise is this; the Fundamentalists are objecting to Harry Potter et al. as being Satanic, yet they’ve never given us a definition of what Satanism is or proven that it even exists. As I mentioned, I’ve had the opportunity to run into two self-decribed Satanists and what they practiced was nothing like what the Fundamentalist are saying. It’s in the same vein as when they say that all homosexuals are pedophiles and consume human feces during sex. :rolleyes:

I’d like them to back up their claims of what Satanism is and prove that it exists IN THAT FORM. Otherwise, they’re crying wolf.

[Solomon7t]

*Originally posted by Brea *
** The books about Harry Potter are FICTION. This implies that they were created to ENTERTAIN. Be entertained or not, folks, but don’t take it so seriously. After all, we have much more going on in our world right now to worry about than whether some kid with a lightning bolt scar on his forehead is going to bap our kids on the heads with a wand and turn them into sheep. Churches do that well enough on their own every Sunday.
**

Amen.

[Captain_Amazing]

*Originally posted by critter_hunter *
**A well-known fantasy and science-fiction author, Tracy Hickman is also a devout member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Mormons)

Now isn’t that interesting? **

It’s more interesting that he gets overshadowed all the time by Margaret Weis. I’d really like to see him do some more solo writing. I haven’t read it, but The Immortals is supposed to be a really good book.

[Skott]

*Originally posted by Freyr *
If they’re going to claim that any religion other than theirs is “satanism” then all the more reason to laugh at them.

Not that people are ever judgemental about other people’s beliefs on this board. No, never that!

[tomndebb]

I’d like them to back up their claims of what Satanism is and prove that it exists IN THAT FORM. Otherwise, they’re crying wolf.

But they have.

Everything that they perceive as having not come from God, has come from Satan who is the ruler of this world. Simply because you can find one set of Satanists whose beliefs are not represented in Rowlings’s books does not mean that there is no wider Satanic influence.
(E.g., Bach cannot be a classical composer because he wrote during the Baroque period–provided, of course, that one chooses to ignore that all symphonic and related music is often called “classical.”)
Certainly, one can oppose their beliefs on a number of levels from common sense to Scripture, but those are the beliefs they hold, and in context it makes sense to them; you are never going to dissuade them from their position unless you find a way to use their interpretation of Scripture against their beliefs.
I am not up to that task.

[sqweels]

but those are the beliefs they hold, and in context it makes sense to them; you are never going to dissuade them from their position

But in this context, the Fundies are the ones who have made the accusation of satanism, witchcraft, etc., so the burden of proof is on them. If you accuse someone of a crime and the only evidence you have is “these are my beliefs”, then it’s “case dismissed”.

[Telemark]

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011115/od/potter_dc.html

Some protests from Taiwan.

[jab1]

Jack Chick writes about Harry Potter here, here, and here. (The third article is mostly about Dungeons and Dragons and mentions Potter only briefly.)

[MandaJo]

But in this context, the Fundies are the ones who have made the accusation of satanism, witchcraft, etc., so the burden of proof is on them. If you accuse someone of a crime and the only evidence you have is “these are my beliefs”, then it’s “case dismissed”.

Except that the fundamentalists are not trying to prove that Harry Potter is Satanic in any objective sense–they’re just explaining why they don’t let thier children read them/see the movie. Now, if the issue is keeping any children from reading the books, you may have a point, but not otherwise. (This does get a bit complicated when you start talking about he problem with teachers assigning Harry Potter for a grade–but considering most teachers routinely provide alternite reading choices for parents who object to the word “Damn” in Of Mice nad Men, I think that this falls in line with “acommadations teachers ought to make jsut to make our diverse socity flow more smoothly.”

[Apollyon]

*Originally posted by jab1 *
Jack Chick writes about Harry Potter …third article is mostly about Dungeons and Dragons…

Chick: “Contrary to the ramblings of D&D defenders like Michael Stackpole, the Necronomicon and the Cthulhu mythos are quite real”.

ROTFLMAO Owww, owww… stop it… must stop laughing… hurts… owww…

[Shirley_Ujest]

Post by the Wonderful Tomndebb

that every “power” either comes from God or comes from Satan (and anything that is not clearly in their
tradition of coming from God, must, therefore be from Satan).

Soooooo, what side is Edison/ Consumer Powers on? God or Satan?

Couldn’t resist.
If Harry Potter is Satanic…what in the name of Jumpin’ Jehosaphat is Mary Poppins? She flies through the air with an umbrella? Feeds kids " sugar" with their medicine and they love her? She’s part of a cult, I just know it!

[jab1]

I didn’t see that part! (I just skimmed the article) Sometimes I wonder if Chick is really a con artist or a practical joker.

[tomndebb]

Well, it’s remotely possible that Consumers Power is of God,
but it is incontrovertible that Detroit Edison is of Satan.

[sqweels]

Except that the fundamentalists are not trying to prove that Harry Potter is Satanic in any objective sense–they’re just explaining why they don’t let their children read them/see the movie

Well, they are publicly denouncing Harry Potter as “promoting witchcraft and satanism”. Although they stop short of calling for censorship, this goes beyond the personal level of what they want their kids to read. If you ask me, it borders on libel.

Acutally, I think they should keep it up. If “Christians” are defined as people who think the magic in Harry Potter is real, they they’re digging their own grave, credibility-wise.

[Katisha]

*Originally posted by Shirley Ujest *
**If Harry Potter is Satanic…what in the name of Jumpin’ Jehosaphat is Mary Poppins? She flies through the air with an umbrella? Feeds kids " sugar" with their medicine and they love her? She’s part of a cult, I just know it! **

Strangely, Mary Poppins is the only movie I’ve ever seen that gets 100 percent from the CAP Alert guy. :eek:

(“The Tigger Movie” only scored 98.)

Oh, and for more evidence that not all Christians are up-in-arms about Harry, here’s a blurb from the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops’ review of the film:

Parents concerned about the film’s sorcery elements should know that it is unlikely to pose any threat to Catholic beliefs. “Harry Potter” is so obviously innocuous fantasy that its fiction is easily distinguishable from real life. Harry uses his “magical powers” for good to fight evil. Parents and children can enjoy this fetching tale in the same spirit of the time-honored tradition of sorcery in Eastern Literature, such as the magical figure of Merlin in the Arthurian legend. And the film ends with a very upbeat, positive message about sacrificial love. Older children should be able to handle it, although it is too long and intense for younger ones.

Though I have to ask: in what way is the Arthurian legend “Eastern” literature, even from a U.S. viewpoint?

[rjung]

*Originally posted by Katisha *
Though I have to ask: in what way is the Arthurian legend “Eastern” literature, even from a U.S. viewpoint?

“It’s got a sword in it!”
“Must be one of them Japanese ninja-thingies!”

(King Arthur – Medieval Ninja. Sounds like a new comic book series… )

[Freyr]

**Skott wrote:

Not that people are ever judgemental about other people’s beliefs on this board. No, never that!**

Prehaps not actually laughing at them, put certainly to point out the absurdity of their claim (that any religion that is non-Judeo-Christian is essentially Satanism). If someone started a campaign suggesting that Winne the Pooh books were satanic, wouldn’t you laugh?

**tomndebb

Certainly, one can oppose their beliefs on a number of levels from common sense to Scripture, but those are the beliefs they hold, and in context it makes sense to them; you are never going to dissuade them from their position unless you find a way to use their interpretation of Scripture against their beliefs.**

I agree with your point that changing the way they believe would be neigh impossible. But I do think that pointing out the illogic of their accusations is something worth doing. They’ve created this boogey man called Satanism and are freely using it to denigrate whatever goes against their idea of proper belief or practice. They’ve never defined what Satanism is, except that something “bad” and it goes against Christian belief nor shown any solid evidence that it even exists.