I was kid of disappointed that for naming the final chapter of the saga “The Deathly Hallows” and spending quite a bit of time explaining them, that they didn’t seem to play much of a part in the end except for the elder wand.
I thought Voldy would be on some anti-horcrux quest himself to get them but he didn’t seem interested in becoming the “Master of Death”.
The cloak didn’t play much of a part in anything besides using it to sneak around. And even the resurrection stone was never used. Harry found it inside the snitch and then seemed to just drop it on the ground. I thought he’d use it on someone who just died or to save himself, but no, he just used it to talk to a bunch of the dead for a pep speech and that was the last we heard of it.
So since I heard Harry doesn’t “break” the wand in the book version, and he still has possesion of the stone and cape, is he the new “Master of Death”?
Bellatrix’s wand is explained better in the book (as are most things, of course.) They do provide the wand, but fail to anticipate that the real Bellatrix has reported her wand missing, so the goblins know it’s stolen property, and that’s how they find out they’re dealing with intruders.
WAG on my part, but Avada Kedavra is unblockable–maybe that’s why it’s in a special category.
He doesn’t break it, but he does return it to Dumbledore’s tomb, after using it to repair his phoenix wand. If Harry dies a natural death, its power will be broken. (A big risk if you ask me, considering he goes on to be an Auror!) And he dropped the stone in the forest. So the only Hallow he keeps is the invisibility cloak.
My central point is that the entire Hallows adventure is irrelevant. Why did Dumbledore want Harry to know about the Deathly Hallows? In what way was knowing about the Deathly Hallows a significant contributor to defeating Voldemort? If anything, the Hallows is a wild-goose chase. Harry could have ended up hunting for the Elder Wand instead of Horcruxes. Or even more hilariously, the resurrection stone which was hidden in his snitch all along.
This I could accept. But it isn’t well motivated in the movie (I don’t remember the specifics of the book, but the given explanation is weak). Maybe if they showed her thinking in flashback to times in the movie where the Malfoy’s weren’t too happy with Voldemort like the beginning of 7.1 or the end of 7.1 when Bellatrix warns Draco that “if we’re wrong, he’ll kill us all.” I mean, turning on Voldemort seems like a good idea to me, but I don’t think the movie establishes that as Narcissa’s motivation. Frankly, judging by the movie, she acts grossly out of character. I get that she is worried about Draco, but lying about Harry’s deadness does nothing to help Draco in any way. I mean it’s not like Voldemort said “If he’s not dead I’m nuking Hogwarts right now!”
Killing Harry should have been trivial. Voldemort’s insistance on being the one to kill him is pretty much the only reason Harry survived as long as he did 
I really didn’t mean to turn this into a debate. It’s a story. One that I mostly accept, but there are a few tiny things that continue to poke me.
Dumbledore knew that LV would come around to looking for the elder wand. LV’s wand would never work to kill Harry, and he would be searching for a better one. His egotism would certainly lead him to an obsession with “the best dueling wand ever.”
Also, Harry needed to understand the nature of the tools Dumbledore had provided to him. The one who commanded all three could defeat death. It was Harry’s innate humility that allowed him to command them instead of becoming obsessed by them. Like in the Philosopher’s Stone - Only the one who wanted to find the stone, not use it . . . same with the Hallows, they were inherently dangerous to those with self-interest at heart.
Oh yes! I forgot this one.
I think in the book they know not to present the wand because it is known to have been stolen, but I can’t remember precisely. In the movie, its left dangling there staring you in the face!
As for the Imperius Curse. I was annoyed by that too. I think it is in the book too and I recall being unhappy with the idea of Harry using an unforgivable curse. Hello, they are unforgivable! Or not so much apparently.
yes, yes he is. that is why he did an odd dance move, and tee hee hee, when he thought he had killed harry.
dumbledore had a lovely plan of dying undefeated. by planning his death by snape, he was setting up the elder wand to not go to another wizard.
things got a bit mixed up there by draco disarming him. thankfully harry and draco are not best buds and things worked out.
albus gave hermione the book to explain the cloak and stone. harry already had the cloak, and the stone was in the snitch to be found at the end. harry then had the knowledge to use the stone to help him make the sacrifice ness. to kill the bit of tom’s soul in him.
when he willed the book to hermione, he thought that the elder wand would be depowered and not a factor.
Overall I liked the film a lot but I am also baffled about the changes made to the final battles. Actually I don’t think Rowling is good at writing big action climaxes but the changes they made didn’t make much sense and seemed to make everything smaller and less important. In particular I think it was a serious mistake to have Harry beat Voldermort with no one around. The movie missed out on the sense of elation and sheer relief which everyone would have felt when Voldermort died.
I don’t think she’s out of character. It does say in the book that Voldy shows a strange reluctance to get near Harry’s body (though why he didn’t have Bellatrix check instead of Narcissa doesn’t make sense, I’ll admit).
I love the whole thing with the Malfoys. It’s a very nice parallel with what happened to Harry. In both cases, loving mothers (and you can say what you want about the Malfoys, but there was never any indication that Draco’s parents didn’t love him, and he them) made sacrifices (if Voldy had checked and figured out that Harry was in fact alive, all three Malfoys were certainly worm chow) in order to save their children. It was much clearer in the books that the Malfoys realized that they were in over their heads, and that flirting with evil when it was safe (and Voldy was safely dead) was a lot easier than having to deal with real evil (especially evil that’s capricious, random, and as the books go on, increasingly unhinged). They were doing everything they could to give the illusion that they were still Voldy supporters while simultaneously looking for any way out they could take. I think Narcissa realized that since Harry was alive after being hit with Voldy’s curse, that maybe he would have a chance against Voldy if allowed to make his move at his own time. Harry’s victory would likely be her and her family’s only chance to get out from under Voldy’s thumb (and further, I think Narcissa and Lucius both would have sacrificed their own lives without a moment’s hesitation if it meant saving Draco’s.)
Close…but he didn’t think it would be depowered, he just thought it would have allegiance to Snape, his ally.
I think he sent Narcissa as a further degradation of the Malfoys’ status - just disposable people now. He didn’t send Bellatrix on the off-chance it was dangerous - from her death scene in the book - she was possibly the one person he cared about at all.
Just wanted to say thanks for covering this - it came in early morning my time and I won’t have access to the book for another five or six hours yet.
The Resurrection Stone doesn’t actually perform resurrections; providing the “pep speech from the dead” was its purpose. While it could briefly bring back a form of the deceased, it could not return them to life.
It proved that it was the actual sword of Godric Gryffindor–it appears to any true Gryffindor who needs it. One of my favorite Rowling bits is that Neville also gets to wield the sword. And I also think that once Griphook was dead, the sword had no need to “stay” with him.
The Deathly Hallows were key to the whole story, although that is not clear in the film. At no point (except for a shared look between Harry and Hermione) is it made clear that Harry’s cloak IS the invisibility cloak. It is made clear in the book, IMS. The Resurrection Stone is necessary to give Harry the courage to make the ultimate sacrifice (but, in a devilish twist that mirrors AD’s actions with the Mirror or Erised, Harry only needs to be willing to die-he doesn’t have to actually die. And of course, doing so kills off the bit of LV that resided in him). The Elder Wand is key to LV. He would not be content with anything less. What I don’t understand is why such a learned and powerful wizard 1. hadn’t known about the Elder Wand for most of his adult life or 2. why he hadn’t searched for it before now. Afterall, “there is only power and those too weak to wield it.” Seems to me that Riddle or Voldy would have sought out the EW a long time ago.
I also think that Rowling not mentioning the DH until the last book is a weak point-kind of like how she doesn’t mention Hogsmeade until suddenly she needs the kids to be able to go somewhere other than Hogwarts. :dubious: Hogsmeade is great, but it seemed contrived when it was first inserted into the story, IMO.
I sort of wonder if muggle/wizard couples don’t have two separate ceremonies–one for the wizards, and one for the muggles. Maybe they’d invite the wizards who could be trusted to keep their wands to themselves to the muggle ceremony, and invite the muggles who could be trusted to keep their mouths shut to the wizard one.
As for Narcissa (only marginally relevant to the discussion), I thought the part with her and Harry was kind of badass. Here she is, lying to Voldemort, the most accomplished legilimens in the entire wizarding world, in order to save her son. Woman’s got mad occlumency skills (or the feminine equivalent of brass balls), that’s for damn sure.
I also liked that the Malfoys just left after the battle, rather than (as in the book) sitting awkwardly at the Slytherin table. I feel like they’d be more likely to say “the hell with this, let’s go home and try to put our lives back together” than to hang with people they’d been enemies with for years.
Just to clarify–I don’t mean that Griphook was a Gryffindor, just that since the sword appears to a true member of that house, it also has to disappear from places. Neville had the hat (I believe he was wearing it in the book), and that is the swords portkey, so to speak.
I thought AD gave Hermione the book because it contained the story of the 3 Brothers and coupled with the symbol, she’d figure it out. And it also served to slow them down bit (someone mentions that in HP7) so they didn’t go haring off to confront LV right off.
IIRC from the book, the point was made when Hermione received the Tales of Beedle the Bard book from Dumbledore’s will that Ron was completely and casually familiar with the stories while Hermione and Harry, who had been raised by Muggles, had never heard of them. Tom Riddle grew up in a Muggle orphanage and so also never encountered the stories when he was young. How often do we as adults read the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm, especially if we had never come across them before?
a good part of scholarly research involves chasing myths, not the myth busters (US) but the myth chasers (germany.) you investigate popular tradition, legends, and yes, fairy tales. but then i’m speaking as a muggle. i’ve a feeling this methodology should be more common in wizardom.
snape would be working under albus’ plan. snape didn’t defeat dumbledore, he killed him under an agreed upon plan.
dumbledore did not plan on draco disarming him, there by defeating him.
which now that i think about it, must be how dumbledore got the wand from grindelwald. he must have gotten in a very quick disarm or something to get the wand but not kill him.
rocking chair, re-reading the final battle between Harry and Voldemort, I see you’re right–Dumbledore’s plan was for the Elder Wand’s power to die with him:
Can’t believe I never caught that before! I always assumed he meant for Snape to have the wand’s power. Doh.
Off for my second viewing in half an hour! IMAX 3D again…only one that will be over before I have to go pick up my kids. 
ETA to clarify– because I have to see it in 3D, not because I have to get my kids! 
Voldemort says in the end, “Dumbledore’s plan backfired!”
And Harry Potter says, “It backfired against you.”
It did go wrong, but made the wand Harry’s, which killed Voldemort.