I don’t see how Snape could have wanted to kill Dumbledore. Remember, Dumbledore trusted Snape, but he still begged Snape for something just before he was killed: “Severus, please…” Obviously he wasn’t begging Snape to spare him, since he thought Snape was on his side. He was begging Snape to kill him, perhaps in accordance with some agreement they had, and maintain his cover. Snape’s expression of anger/disgust was directed at himself, not Dumbledore.
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Me, too. I cannot bring myself to start anything else, but also cannot reread it, because it’s my daughter’s turn. /QUOTE]
You made your daughter wait till you’d read it first? Dude, that’s cruel!
I, too, was kind of blown away by Dumbledore’s death, but think it’s likely we’ll see him return in some form or another. I have a hard time imagining that he planned his death, though. I just don’t think he would put Harry through the grief and horror of watching him die after everything else Harry’s been through.
What’s with potions, anyway? How long have the kids been using bad directions? Would having the proper directions turn them all into Exceeds Expectations students? Why is Snape the only guy to ever figure out that the recipes were wrong, and if not, why didn’t they change the stupid book? Why would Hermione be offended that Harry was using a better recipe?
Why didn’t Harry get in trouble for using a Dark spell on Draco?
Another question occured to me, not necessarily about this particular book . . . .
Why are the Weasleys poor? Food is conjured from the air. No utility bills, or insurance. Broken items are repaired with a spell. There’s never been mention of taxes. The only expenses we’ve ever seen are when the kids need robes and books. Surely the Ministry pays at least a middle-range wage? So, why are they broke? D’you think Arthur has a secret crack habit? 
Whoa, I don’t remember the word “slut” in the book-where was that?
I don’t agree that Dumbledore’s lecture of the Dursleys was out of character. In the past, he’s never failed to let people know what he thinks of them. I also like how he said that their greatest abuse was against Dudley, not Harry.
(Oh, one thing I thought was just so cute: Mr. Weasley’s petname for his wife is “Mollywobbles”. Heh. I really, REALLY love the Weasleys.)
I think the main reason Dumbledore had to die is that Hogwarts can no longer be safe from Voldemort, since Dumbledore was the ONLY wizard he was afraid of. Now that he’s gone, all bets are off.
He didn’t know it was a dark spell, maybe?
The Weasleys are broke because they have seven kids, Molly doesn’t work, and Arthur’s salary isn’t that great (he’s rather lower down the totem pole at the ministry). And no, they don’t have to pay utilities or insurance, but they probably have to pay for food SUPPLIES (maybe the potatos that are magically chopped with wands have to come from somewhere), and they need their supplies for magic potions, and other expenses.
And they might have other bills to pay for, like oh, Arthur’s hospital bills, and I’ll bet that the wizarding community does pay taxes. How else would they fund the ministry and Hogwarts and the like?
I think Marvolo calls Merope a slut. Somebody does, anyway.
Am I the only person in the world who thinks that Dumbledore is just dead, and Snape is just a bad guy? I can’t recall anything that would really preclude the possibility, and to me at least it would be brilliantly done.
US printing, Chapter 17, page 365- Morfin calls his sister Merope a “slut”
Daughter was out last noc, so I started the book then. Also read it this morning-waking at 0600 (not on purpose) and she is a teen and didn’t rise until 1100. Since I only had 100 pages to go, I finished it.
I don’t think that was AD intent–I think that he and Snape had an agreement, whether or not it was an Unbreakable Vow, that Snape would “finish” off AD, no matter the circumstances. If I were AD, I’d rather die at Snape’s hand than Voldemort’s…
I think that Hermione is offended by Harry showing her up and also that he is essentially cheating–he is not learning the principals involved, but using the book as a shortcut. Ginny had a good point about Harry using a book that is anonymous and potentially harmful (but he didn’t abide by that advice).
Snape was Potions master–he got to be the one who determined the grades deserved. He actually reminds me of some nursing instructors I had–they honestly didn’t care about the class material–they cared about their pet students. Snape was not that bad–but he never cut the three any slack.
Also, I don’t think the textbooks were faulty–I get the impression that, like any recipe, quantity and timing and heat etc are crucial in the making of an accurate potion.
WAG-all bets are off due to the “war”. Also, time and plot constraints on JKR’s part. I think that spell will come back in the last book, though.
IMO, the Weasley’s are poor d/t the number of kids they have, and Arthur’s “hobby”–also he has been passed over for promotion several times in the Ministry, most likely because he is too honest and doesn’t play office politics well. They don’t grow their own food, that I remember. I understand the magic is used to aid in preparation and clean up, but not in actual creation of food. Could be wrong.
OK. I admit I got bored reading the spoilers since I, like, read it myself. I think a number of people here are sort of revealing that they are naive readers by presuming the Snape thing to be at face value. I appreciate someone tretyping the passage here, because you can snap back and read it. Given that it is fiction, and of the sort that is likely to intentionally deceive readers and surprise them later, I can ONLY read this scene as Dumbledore telling Severus to kill him. Remember that Snape is an expert at Legilimency. So no previous agreement would have been neccessary… Dumbledore just catch’s Snapes attention, thinks “Kill me. Save the boy and don’t blow your cover.” It’s clear in the chase that Snapes is only deflecting Potter’s spells, not trying to hurt him, even once saves him from another Death Eater.
I think the R.A.B. question is probably dead-on, and good show to the one who remembered that bit character.
“Slut” is possibly not considered quite as inappropriate a word for a children’s book in England as it is here. And I think, re: my previous post, that taking the Snape thing at face value is sort of naive, and ignores all kinds of hints to the contrary.
But killing someone is apparently HOW you make a Horcrux. It’s just too close and suspicious to be unrelated. Harry very obviously has been given some part and access to Voldy. Why NOT his soul? Voldy wouldn’t necessarily know or understand what happened: he clearly DOESN’T know what happened when his killing curse failed.
On a side note, doesn’t Harry tell Dumbledore that Snape took an Unbreakable vow? So even if Dumbledore hadn’t known that already, he would have HAD to have asked or otherwise inquired what was up with that. That’s pretty darn serious. And yet Dumbledore isn’t perturbed in the least to hear it, apparently. He isn’t curious? Again, many things are obviously very fishy here.
Wanna make a couple of points
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doesn’t the old wise mentor being killed in front of his young acolyte sound awfully familiar? Just as Luke had to find another mentor in Yoda, maybe Harry will need to find his own Jedi master’s master.
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If RAB is Regulas Black, it is lkely he has hidden the real Sytherin locket in the Black house. I bet Kreacher knows where it is and will have to be ordered to hand it over.
The idea that Harry is the 6th Horcruxis an interesting idea. Could explain how the connection between Harry and Voldemort is happening.
I think one of the Horcruxes is Wormtail’s hand, created out of the killing of the student who died.
We know that James had the book of potions, since he had the spell. Could James have used a potion on Lily to make her love him? And, like the third echo (Voldemort’s parents, and maybe Snape’s parents), Lily instead either already loved him on her own, or still loved him when it wore off? There was that strong love potion on the first day of class. I think Slug took it off of James, who had stolen it from Snape, and that is why it was there.
There was also the Draught of Living Death. Which Snape knew how to make, since his recipe in the book helped Harry make it perfectly. Could Dumbledore have taken it?
I meant the spell textbook.
I never thought about Tonks that way, but I was almost completely uninterested in that romance, anyway. Some wise editor may have expurgated 40 pages of Tonks In Love, and thank god for himr or her.
I loved the Bella/ 'Cissy (Sissy?) dynamic, too. I really thought, until I couldn’t any more, that Snape was going to die in this book, by breaking his Vow.
And I didn’t even consider Regulus Black, although that makes perfect sense now. I thought it was Borgin’s partner (I think it was Burke?) who destroyed the horcrux.
The Horcrux I fugured was derived from Horus, the Egyptian god, who flew “further than the gods (or, in this case, wizards) of old,” as Voldemort did.
BTW I do understand that this interpretation defies parrallelism, that iy applies only to Voldemort, while the Horcrux, presumably, applies to many wizards before him, but Rowling was never a slave to consistency in her mythological references.
From OotP (no page number as I got this quote from a friend, but it’s when they’re cleaning out No. 12 Grimmauld Place):
I think that’s the one. I also think Mundungus has probably taken it out of the house and sold it somewhere. Either that or it completely slips everyone’s mind until last thing in the next book.
No way to Dumbledore having created a horcrux for himself. The wizard who believes death is the next great adventure is not going to hedge his bets in such an evil way.
As soon as I realized what Draco’s task was, it was clear that Snape was going to kill Dumbledore. This way, Snape gets the ‘credit’ and is well-positioned to betray Voldemort in book 7. He was clearly NOT trapped into the Unbreakable Vow, but allowed Mrs. Malfoy and Bellatrix Lestrange to “push” him into something he was ready (but not necessarily eager) to do. I agree that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him, rather than let any of the other Death Eaters (or Draco), do so. It felt like a request for a mercy killing. As to whether Snape will betray Voldemort or help Harry et al. destroy Voldemort in book 7, I haven’t yet made up my mind. Maybe he will be able to force Wormtail to redeem his wizard’s debt to Harry?
Harry cannot be a Horcrux for Voldemort - I agree with Tarrsk , and for the same reasons.
Was I the only reader annoyed with how bitchy Hermione was this book? Yes, she’s a teenager waiting for Ron to grow up and get a clue, but wise people (as opposed to the merely intelligent) don’t blow up for such small issues repeatedly.
I’ll be curious to see if Draco really does decide to buck Voldemort and the Death Eaters, or whether (as I think is more likely) he will buy into the idea that Dumbledore’s reputation was overrated or from AD’s glory days.
Assuming Hogwarts does not close down, can Harry, Hermione and Ron quit school (despite the decision at the end of HBP)? Hermione is not old enough in the muggle world to be of age (i.e. her parents have to consent), and Mrs. Weasley would likely have a fit over Ron’s decision.
I don’t think Harry knew that Snape had made an Unbreakable Vow, so he wouldn’t have told Dumbledore. We see that scene, but Harry doesn’t.
Any thoughts on why Snape is infuriated at the idea of being thought a coward? He’s not a Gryffindor, after all …
Even if Snape was killing AD by request, there’s no way that Harry’s going to forgive him. After all, he was indirectly responsible for the deaths of Harry’s parents, and directly responsible for the death of his mentor.
One thing strikes me–was it ever actually stated that Draco’s task was to kill AD? We’re clearly meant to think so, but you know how Ms. Rowling loves to do that sort of thing to us. And if that was Draco’s task, he’s failed, which will not be viewed kindly by Lordy V.
I believe that this is the first time where we have a third-person, omniscient narrator. In all the previous books, we knew only what Harry knew, even in the scenes with Voldemort and Pettigrew. Am I wrong about this?
I think Voldemort would just be happy that Dumbledore was dead. malfoy’s last plan, after all, involved bringing Death Eaters into the school, presumably to do what he could not.
The first chapter of the first book is not from Harry’s point of view. The books have more or less been like that one and this one, with a bit of a prelude involving other characters, then resuming life with Harry, or starting with Harry.