Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix (Major Spoilers!!!)

Cafe Society
41

Ok, finished it last night after completing one of my papers.
There were definitely funny moments. When Trelawny announces that Harry is not going to die a terrible death because of his interview with Skeeter is the one that stands out in my mind.

I was not upset the death of Sirius. I felt like his death was set up from the beginning between Kreaker and his not being allowed to leave the house, so I was almost expecting it. I did have a moment when I thought that Hermione had bought it during the fight scene and that would have bothered me.

The thing with Harry using the Cruciatus curse bothered me a lot. Not because of the whole “Unforgivable curse” thing, but because the doing it out of anger made me think of Luke Skywalker, and that about gave me the giggles.

I liked the anger in Harry’s character - it definitely made it feel more like a YA book than a kid’s book though.

I’ve still got to do some thinking and re-reading as time allows…I’m sure I’ll have more to say.

42

A few thoughts:

  1. I am amazed that some people don’t like the way Rowling writes about the characters and their relationships. To my mind that’s clearly the thing she does BEST. The botched-up crush between Harry and Cho was absolutely, 100% accurate. Remember, these kids are fifteen years old. They’re ignorant and colossally self-centred. Harry’s behaviour as described is precisely correct for a kid his age. He’s self-obsessed, moody, unable to control his temper, looks at issues in two-dimensional terms… that’s a teenager. If you expect better, you’ve forgotten his age.

I also think the other characters are extremely well written. Ron, in particular, isn’t paper thin at all; he’s a very well drawn character, and very consistent over time and with respect to his family. His feelings of inadequacy are well described without being overdone; he’s still a reasonably normal kid. Yeah, we don’t see him going after girls in this one, but it wasn’t germane to the plot, and anyway kids that age sometimes aren’t ready to admit their sexuality and channel it through - well, sports is a common one for boys. And you’ll note Ron’s now on the team. Hermione’s damn near as good, though we didn’t get as much of her personal issues in this one. The bad guys are mostly paper thin, and Snape’s ongoing affection for Malfoy et al. is becoming a silly contradiction, but the core group of characters are some of the best-written, msot vibrant characters I’ve ever read. Rowling is remarkably skilled at writing teenagers; most authors/screenwriters/what have you write them as either adults or brainless thugs.

  1. However, Rowling’s not very good at writing action. The battle in the Ministry of Magic just plain sucked; it resembled a climactic gun battle in a bad Charles Bronson movie. It was an absolute mess of writing with no coherent flow at all, ended with an outrageously bad deus ex machina, and the death of Sirius had absolutely no emotional heft whatsoever, though to be honest he was a lousy character anyway.

  2. I found the Ministry of Magic stuff quite convincing. Yes, bureaucracies really can be that stupid, that bullheaded, and that malicious and vengeful. Anyone who has ever had the misfortune of having to deal with a government agency in a working environment knows Rowling is spot on. Government bureaucracies are clumsy and ignorant at the best of times. When angered, or driven by political necessity, they’re predatory and destructive.

I find it interesting, though, that people are seeing parallels between the MOM and the Bush regime. What a Rorschact (sp?) test result that is - because, really, there are no particularly strong parallels. The Bush administration, interpreted negatively, is warmongering, while the Fudge administration is enthusiastically IGNORING the impending war. The general maliciousness of the MoM can be paralelled to any government - The Bush regime, Clinton, Ford, Nixon, Taft, or the governments of almost any industralized nation. I do not believe Rowling was describing Bush’s administration at all.

43

Damn right. Mr Weasley’s interested in all the wrong things about us. He’s fascinated by cars and telephones when what he could really learn about is ideas like the seperation of powers (Harry was tried by the government!) and human rights. What the wizarding world needs is a civics lesson or two.

Yup, I gotta agree that the D.A was well cool, especially Hermione’s curse that she put on the (non-golden) snitch. I was very relieved Rowling didn’t kill Hermione - she’s the best of the lot, and the books wouldn’t be the same without her. At least we can cope with Sirius’ loss.

Question to U.Sians: On page 305 of my edition, when the yet-to-be-formed D.A meets in the Hogs’ Head for the first time, the following passage appears:

What does yours say?

44

First off, what in the world does, “REMEMBER MY LAST, PETUNIA!” mean?!? My last what? Message? Visit? Meal?

The first 250 pages of this book were terrible. Absolutely aweful. There was no indication of an editor, plot, direction or purpose.

Potter acted like a complete moron up until he said, “She’s not wrong, you know” in the Hog’s Head (referring to Mrs. Weasely saying that Harry gets too much attention thrust on him). That’s when the story started for me - unfortunately, it took over 200 pages to get there.

Anyone notice how Ginny is easily the most popular person in school? She has an active social life (two boyfriends in a year), hangs out with the Potter cliche, hangs out with 4th and 5th year Griffindors and Ravenclaws, is the seeker for Griffindor, and is active in D.A. She’s probably my favorite character. Rowling really pumped her up.

I also love what she’s done with Neville. He can’t be The One, simply because the 2nd half of the prophesy specifically excludes him. I’ve had a soft spot for him since his parents’ fate was revealed in the last book, and he really lived up to it this time around.

I was pretty pissed that Harry said that Neville would have been one of the last members of D.A. he would have chosen to join him in the raid on MoM. Neville was second only to Hermione in picking up defensive spells in their training.

Could Potter be any more of an idiot? Seriously. Rowling did a serious injustice to his character in this book. He gets one Christmas present from each person this year. Sirius has given him something incredibly cool each year. Does he even look at his gift this year? Nope, not until it’s too late. All Rowling had to do was have Kreacher hide the mirror at the crucial moment to make it plausible. But no, apparently it’s easier to make Harry a moron.

Loved Luna. Completely reminds me of a bizarre friend I have. Painfully awkward sometimes, but a huge heart. She and Neville will be very happy together.

Ginny still has a thing for Harry. At the end in the hospital, they make eye contact, share a smile, and she looks away, blushing. Good match, those two (at least, once Harry stops being a moron).

Grade: B- Too wordy, needs an editor badly, loose ends galore, terrible character development for Harry, no driving plot. Third best book in the series. (Azkaban is first, Goblet is second.)

45

It says sorcerous…changed to sorcerors.

I did like the throwaway line about the Muggle Prime Minister. I think more could be made of that.

46

The US version has Neville screwing up Sorcerer’s stone with Hermione correcting him. I can post the passage when I get home if you’d like…

47

Yeah… I did feel a definite “Empire Strikes Back” flavor in this one. It felt… transitory, like it was intended as a bridge between two stories, as opposed to a story in itself.

I was also kind of irritated that the entire first half of the book frantically orbits Harry and his anger. I mean, okay, he’s angry, we know he’s angry… can we get over it now? Jeez, if I want perpetually angry teeners, I can go have a look at reality instead of standing in line at a bookstore…

I also didn’t much like the fact that this entire book’s plot revolved around people being stupid.

Harry is blinded by his anger, and his need to play the hero.

All the Ministry people are idiots. Umbridge is a vicious idiot, Fudge is a terrified idiot, and Percy… well… then again, Percy’s been a prat since day one, so why expect changes?

Sirius reveals the fact that he’s an idiot, and then dies a heroic idiotic death.

Voldemort and the Death Eaters reveal that they aren’t too bright either, when they reveal they can get into and out of the Ministry at will, but then totally fail to obtain the McGuffin from a very surprised mob of teenagers.

…and then at the end, Dumbledore reveals that he wasn’t too bright in this book, either, by enumerating his OWN mistakes.

Maybe Rowling’s been having an off year. Or three.

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I’m a little sleep-deprived from reading the book this weekend; please forgive any errors.

I felt the Cho/Harry interactions made sense, especially in light of her past relationship with Cedric Diggory. Harry is like her last connection to Cedric, as he was the one to bring his body back, and I felt she had no small amount of guilt in having a crush on him. Both of them aren’t sure of what they’re feeling, and don’t know how to coherently express it either.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I was very disappointed in Hagrid this time around. There was nothing to him in either his role or characterization, apart from being a convenient way to get his giant half-brother into the Forbidden Forest to later deal with the centaurs and Umbridge. Speaking of the centaurs, Firenze’s classroom is the shiznit. I was, however, impressed with Neville, Ginny, and Professor McGonagall (especially her hints to Peeves about how to take down the chandelier and loaning him her walking stick to beat Umbridge about the head as she left Hogwarts). Interesting bit from Nearly Headless Nick as well, about how he was afraid of death and implying that was why he was still here. I’ll have to go back and look at that again.

The tone of this book was so different from the previous ones; instead of beginning with the anticipation of going to Hogwarts for another year, we see Harry in jeopardy–more seriously–of being expelled from school. He’s pissed off, frustrated, and lashing out at everyone around him. Harry’s temper and rash judgments are becoming his Achilles’ heel, as illustrated by the Sirius Black trap set up for him at the MOM. It’ll be interesting to see how he balances his heart and his head in the next two books. I could have done without the copious vomiting; I think I counted at least 5 or 6 separate episodes. People seemed to be puking in every other chapter.

49

Agreed. Fudge seems to have dictatorial powers.

I’ve always thought it a bit unbelievable how absolutely ignorant of the Muggle world all the wizards are supposed to be.

50

I felt that the Harry-Cho crush was far too disjointed. Harry’s just had his crush confess to him and kiss him, and yet he appears to forget about her existence for wide gaps in the book. Yes he has a lot on his mind, but c’mon… he’s a 15 year old boy. I’d like to think that he would think about her a bit more often. I found myself wondering ‘what’s up with Harry and Cho?’ a bit more than I would have liked.

51

I think my biggest annoyance is the mirror from Sirius. Harry kept taking extreme risks just to talk to Sirius, when he could have just used the mirror. Sirius told him when he gave him the gift that it could be used to contact him.

I just read it yesterday, but I already have the timeline confused. Did Sirius use the floo powder after giving Harry the mirror? If so, why didn’t he say, “Open the damned present you self centered snot!” Or just an owl that said, “Open the gift.” I kept wondering why he wasn’t thinking about the damned gift!

And when Harry finds the gift, he doesn’t immediately collapse in the biggest pile of overwhelming guilt in the world, which he should. He killed Sirius, or the next thing to it.

Count me in as a fan of Luna, Neville, and Ginny. Also, I did like Harry and Cho’s relationship. It just seemed real to me, especially the scene in the coffee shop, where he’s wondering if he should be holding her hand.

I feel we may have seen the last of Cho as a significant character.

I was terrified that Mr. Weasley was a goner. Frankly, I didn’t mind Sirius’s death at all, especially after he got all snarky talking about how Harry wasn’t like James. Thank goodness! Who would want a Draco-ified Harry?

Loved the Snape memory scene. Snape is extremely intriguing, and it was great to get some nuance in Harry’s parents.

And Umbridge? Perfect. Just perfect.

Juli

52

jsgoddess, Sirius didn’t use the Floo to talk to Harry after he gave him the mirror - that was before Christmas. However, both times Harry broke into Umbridge’s office to talk to Sirius was after Christmas. It was ridiculous that Sirius didn’t mention the mirror the first time. A completely unneccessary mistake that an EDITOR could have noticed.

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I am assuming that ‘REMEMBER MY LAST, PETUNIA’ means remember the last letter you got from me. The last letter he sent being the one that arrived with the baby Harry on her doorstep. According to Dumbledore’s explanation, this first letter outlined the fact that Petunia’s sister had given her life to protect this child from Voldemort (whom Petunia had heard about from James and Lily) and that the only way to protect the child was to allow him to live there because she shared ‘blood’ with her sister, Lily. The mother’s blood protects the child. Petunia has the mother’s blood running through her veins. Proximity to Petunia Dursley = Protection for Harry Potter.

Wouldn’t it be nice if Aunt Petunia grew a heart toward the end?
FB

54

Right. I pretty much got the meaning (especially after Dumbledore’s explanation), but that wording is terrible! Does it make sense right away to British readers? Do they typically hack off their direct objects in their sentences?

I have high hope for Petunia. In fact, I wouldn’t be suprised if Petunia is actually a witch who refused to develop her powers/go to Hogwarts.

55

Interesting, especially given the fact that JKR has commented before about some rare people coming to their powers late in life. Maybe Petunia is one of those she’s referring to.

56

I, too, found the last hundred pages or so rather disappointing, although I’m hoping some of the loose ends, especially Harry’s use of the Cruciatus curse without any apparent consequences, will be tied up in later books. (I think Sirius will be back; Lupin seemed to accept that he was dead much too quickly, without any apparent proof; it wouldn’t surprise me if Lupin and perhaps some of the others had agreed to help him go into hiding. Also, it seemed to me that the book was building up to a major Sirius / Snape confrontation that never happened.)

Loved the “Snape’s Worst Memory” sequence – she’s got the psychology of bullying down pat. Actually, I think the episode did a lot to explain Snape’s affection for Malfoy; this is a man who perceives all human relationships in terms of bullies and victims, and who will gladly throw his lot in with the bullies because he’s determined not to become a victim again. It’s also not surprising that he hated Harry more after getting a glimpse of his childhood with Dudley – Harry probably reminds him of a side of himself that he hates. I have to admit that I find the previous generation more interesting than Harry and his friends – wish we got to see more of them. Especially Lupin (swoon…)

I thought she also did a great job capturing the way fifteen-year-olds think, even though it meant all the principle characters could be bloody annoying most of the time. Luckily they should be maturing in future books.

57

I don’t understand why people think that Snape has some sort of affection for Malfoy. Of course he’s going to favor him, for two reasons. (1) He’s in Slytherin, and is the Slytherin seeker. (2) He’s an undercover spy trying to get information on the Death Eaters! Who’s the main man in the DE? Lucius Malfoy! Who keeps talking about his father’s social and political connections? Draco Malfoy!

The more Snape mistreats Harry, the more convinced Malfoy et al. are going to be that Snape is on their side.

58

I didn’t mind Harry’s anger/angst/self-centeredness–it is developmentally right on target. Also, in previous books I’ve found him disconnected/truculent/stuborn for no particular reason, whereas here I thought JK associated his bad behavior with his internal reality.

59

I wonder what if Snape turns out to be a double-crosser? Ie spying on Dumbledore on the basis of spying on Voldemort, and punishing Harry for the sake of doing so (more than for appearances).

Harry did mention that he felt more vulnerable after the occulmency lessons…

60

I don’t think that Snape is a double crosser - Harry feeling more vulnerable after the Occlumency lessons could be any number of things, or just an effect of trying to learn to shield, and becoming more aware of the intrusions (from Voldemort and Snape, because Snape is seeing Harry’s memories when they go through the lessons).