***SPOILER!*** Harry Potter IV ***SPOILER!***

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

While I don’t intend to reveal all the plot points, I do want to discuss the book and the series, so if you haven’t read Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire yet, and you don’t want to your surprises spoiled, you’d better not read the rest of this . . .

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Oookay, then!

I picked up the series last year and read the first two books in a week, waited another week for the third to arrive, read it, and then reread the series at least twice in the last year. The craftsmanship apparent in Rowling’s writing bowled me over. The intricacy of the world she’s created, the wonderful details, and the fully fleshed characters are all marks of first class writer.

I was nervous about the fourth book. Writers I like - like Robert Jordan - have a bad habit of putting out three really good books and then stumbling about, losing their drive and focus. When my mom got home yesterday afternoon with two copies (she didn’t even want to wait the twelve hours it would take me to plow through the book), I was even more nervous. It is a veritable tome of ox-stunning - 734 pages. There was also the rumor, confirmed by Rowling, that she was going to kill off a character. AAAAAH! Not Hermione! Not Hagrid! PLEASE not Fred or George Weasley!

I shouldn’t have worried. Yes, the book is long, but there’s a reason for it. Not only does Rowling start to move the kids into adulthood, but Voldemort rises to his full power once more. The teachers and other adults in the story are fleshed out to a much greater extent. We find out about Snape’s past, Hagrid’s parentage, and see Sirius return to Hogwart’s again. We meet Bill and Charlie Weasley and see Percy go off to work for the Ministry on standardizing cauldron thickness (the perfect job for him). We see Ron and Harry deal with the first real obstacle in their friendship, and Hermione finally gets to be a girly-girl. Rowling also makes plain that this is not a fairy tale world - there are hate groups as vile as any we know now, not to mention the unresolved question of the treatment of house elves. Are they really as happy as they seem, in conditions we would call slavery if it were a human being instead of an elf? Or are Hermione’s goals for house elves just as patronizing as Lucius Malfoy’s treatment of them. So much happens, so much is necessary - every page is worth it.

So, Voldemort is on the loose again, and his supporters have reappeared. The Minister of Magic, Cornelius Fudge, has stuck his head in the sand. Dumbledore is, again, the focus of the fight against He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, and the staff at Hogwarts look like they’ll stand beside him every step of the way - even Snapes. We’ll probably be seeing more of Lupin (yeah!), and quite a bit more of Sirius, but I wonder where Draco and his crowd will be next year. The Weasley family will be in the middle of the fray, that’s for sure.

A few questions I’m left with:

  • why did Voldemort originally attack Harry. He went through Harry’s parents to get to him. What kind of threat did a one year old baby pose to him?

  • Voldemort negated the protection Harry had from his mother, and yet, there was a moment when “Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore’s eyes” after he explained what happened. Then, Dumbledore was back to business. What gives?

  • Is Snape really reformed or is it just a ruse?

  • Will Ron and Hermione hook up?

  • Will Harry ever notice Ginny, or is he going to remain stuck on Cho?

  • We’ve met the friends of Harry’s dad, James Potter. What about Lily’s friends?

  • Did anyone else nearly wet their pants when Mad-Eye Moody transformed Malfoy into a ferret and bounced him up and down the hall?

2

He’s evil? Actually, I think maybe the curse was at all three of them, perhaps it’s hard to aim something that powerful? Grasping at straws.

No idea. Maybe it will be answered in Book V.

Really reformed. He did something amazing to prove his reformation, or Dumbledore wouldn’t believe him. It’s interesting that even though he’s reformed, he still hates Harry.

YES. Hee hee. I cracked up every time Ron glared at Krum, or Hermione looked angry when Rom stared at Fleur.

Dunno. Maybe in a few books. Ginny is still a little young for Harry. She’s what, 12?

Oooh, good question.

That was soo cool! But was that the real Moody? If not, why would he mess with Malfoy?

I have a question, too. At the end, was Krum a wannabe Death Eater, or was he just a jerk trying to screw with Harry and Cedric?

3

That was NOT the real Moody. Barty Crouch (JR) ambushed Moody the day before he was to have gone to Hogwarts. That’s what set off the hostile dustbins. I am a little surprised that Dumbledore didn’t spot the imposter, but then, Crouch stayed in character as Moody all the way to the end. I think the reason he was so hard on Draco was a) he was in character and b) he hates all Death Eaters that were walking free - Draco’s dad is one of them.

I can’t figure Krum out. Casting the crucio curse at someone was completely out of bounds, even for the competition. It is, after all, one of the unforgivable curses. The entire rest of the time, Krum is quiet and not mean at all.

Ginny is one year younger than Harry, Ron, and Hermonie. That would make her 13 to their collective 14. So, I don’t think she’s out of the running.

As for Voldemort and Harry . . . He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named had been hunting the Potters for some time. That was why they used the fidelus charm Wormtail used to betray them. If you think back to the third book, remember Harry’s memories - that James told Lily to run with Harry while he held off Voldemort. Voldemort killed James, and then tried to get Lily out of the way to go after Harry. Lily refused, so he killed her. Only then did he try to kill Harry, which is when his third curse backfired. Three curses, one for each Potter, and it could very well be that Voldemort would have let Lily get away if she had abandoned Harry.

4

Okay, I finished the 4th book last night (or this morning, really).

I think Voldemort liked to make examples of his victims, to thereby crush further revolt from those who might use it. How better than to kill and entire family, right down to the infant.

I was puzzled by the gleam in Dumbledore’s eyes, too. As for Snape hating Harry, maybe it’s simpler than that. Why nkow he held an awful grudge against James Potter. He’s protect Harry in the past. I don’t think Snape is truly evil, just petty and vain. He doesn’t like to see Harry getting attention.

I think Krum does have crushies for Hermione. Perhaps in his school the winning is more important than how you do it. I do wonder, when the final showdown comes, on which side will the younger Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle end up? One immediately figures they’d end up as Death Eaters, but perhaps they’ll surprise us. Surely Dumbledore didn’t let them into the school to train future Death Eaters.

I want to swat that Skeeter.

StG

5

No, no, Krum is good. Shy. Really likes Hermione. Crouch the Younger as Moody, before Dumbledore and the teachers arrive, during the obligatory bad-guy-gives-total-recap-of-his-cleverness-in-waylaying-hero, says that during his attempts to engineer Harry’s success in tournament he put the Imperius Curse on Krum so that he would intercept Cedric in the maze. Lemme look it up…it’s on the bottom of page 677.

I was also fascinated by the glint in Dumbledore’s eye. And why do you think he insisted on Harry returning to the Dursleys’? It’s not for improvement of Muggle-wizard relations, the Dursleys being what they are, and the purported reason for placing him with them while he was young - to protect him from the exposure of his fame - is no longer relevant. D’you think there will eventually be a scene where the similarly miserable upbringings of Voldemort and Harry cause Voldemort a momentary pang of mercy/cause a big enough delay while V. talks about it for the good guys to come and save the day? And is Cornelius Fudge evil? I mean, his alliance with the Dementors, and his having them administer the Kiss of Death to Crouch the Younger before he could give irrefutable evidence of Voldemort’s return…my hackles are raised…

Oh, and any idea when the next one will come out??? Oh, the agony…

6

Weren’t those newspaper article hysterical? They all had me laughing out loud. My sister kept asking me if I was crying.

I keep wondering when something snakey is going to happen. Harry doesn’t speak Parseltongue as a “gift” from You-Know-Who for nothing.

7

Thanks, Paradocs. It was about 4:30 in the morning when I was reading page 667, and it was beginning to blur a bit. :slight_smile:

As for the Dursley’s - the stories would lose a bit without them in it. I’d love to see Sirius (or Snuffles) show up at the Dursley’s!

Wouldn’t it be nice for Hagrid to find a Hagrid-ess (with some style) and settle down to raise some giant wizards?

BTW - I want a house elf. I promise I’ll treat it well and give it plenty of socks! A mortgage-paying elf wouldn’t be bad, either.

StG

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phouka, I did not read any of this thread but I just wanted to thank you very, very much for making it so very clear there were spoilers in this thread! I hate when people don’t let you know before they ruin something! Thanks! :slight_smile:

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StGermain, I agree, the Dursleys are great fun. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that after the fifth year, Harry will be allowed to use magic outside of school. That ought to be interesting…

10

There’s a hint as to why Dumbledore sends Harry back to those wretched Dursleys. Voldemort mentions it when he tell his Death Eaters what’s been going on:

" . . . But how to get at Harry Potter? For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care. Not even I can touch him there . . . "

So do you think Rowling will have the fifth book for us next year? Oh, I hope so!

11

Phouka, I was going to quote that. In the long run, Harry has been better off with the Dursleys. Voldemort couldn’t order Harry killed or kidnapped while he was in the company of Muggles; it would attract too much attention. Horrible as they are, they may have been the saving of him. Imagine if they knew that!

I liked seeing that, in romance as in everything else, Hermione is the most practical of the three. Harry and Ron have a Lancelot attitude towards Cho and Fleur: “If I cannot have you, I will have no other…” whereas Hermione gets the most sought-after guy in the school simply by being the only girl not in awe of him! She may display some more of this bewitching quality in the future; I hope so!

I think now it’s going to get down and dirty. I am glad that none of the original cast was killed (Digory’s tribute was very touching) but I don’t think this will be the last death.

Poor Mad-Eye Moody (the real one).

12

This could be the longest post in the history of this board. However, I’m going to keep it short and to the point.

Kyla, I was under the impression either 5th years could do magic outside the house, or that only graduates could. However, given the state of Fred and George, it would follow that you’re correct.

St. Germaine, I believe Jo Rowling hinted at Olympe Maxime and Rubeus Hagrid becoming good friends and such at the end. One would think this’d suggest something . . . also, if you gave a house elf a piece of human clothing, it’d be set free and you’d have to pay it for any further help. Unless it volunteered . . . knowing house elves, it would.

As for “Voldemort negated the protection Harry had from his mother, and yet, there was a moment when “Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore’s eyes” after he explained what happened. Then, Dumbledore was back to business. What gives?” . . . my thought is that Harry’s scar didn’t hurt when he was close to Voldemort after this. So he wouldn’t have those searing pains when V was near him. I think he and Sirius and McGonnagall still feel very guilty for what happened to Harry, and for not trusting various other people.

“why did Voldemort originally attack Harry. He went through Harry’s parents to get to him. What kind of threat did a one year old baby pose to him?”

He was the son of two powerful wizards. Destroy the son and you’ve got nothing to worry about. Also, Harry’s a witness, and he may yet remember.

“- Is Snape really reformed or is it just a ruse?”

Given the time it’s been since he was a death eater, and given that he wasn’t in the circle when Voldemort met Harry, I think it’s safe to say he truly is transformed, and while he can’t stand Harry, he detests Voldemort even more.

“- Will Ron and Hermione hook up?”

It would be nice, but think how awkward it’d be. Harry watching Ron and Hermione, all lovey-eyed?

“- Will Harry ever notice Ginny, or is he going to remain stuck on Cho?”

Ginny’s 13. Harry’s 14. I think Jo Rowling did that (Cho instead of Ginny) so Ron wouldn’t have been underwater with his sister.

“- We’ve met the friends of Harry’s dad, James Potter. What about Lily’s friends?”

Rowling’s indicated in several interviews that we’ll meet them later. One would think that since they went to the same school they’d share friends.

“I have a question, too. At the end, was Krum a wannabe Death Eater, or was he just a jerk trying to screw with Harry and Cedric?”

Unforgivable charm by Crouch as Moody.

any other Qs?

13

I’m not sure you understood the question. The “gleam” in Dumbledore’s eyes was a straight-up Hitchcock moment; in fact, I still feel like I swallowed an icecube. I don’t know what it meant, and I don’t believe anyone is supposed to. That’s the hook that will get people into book 5 (anyone who needs further incentive, anyway). Dumbledore looking triumphant when hearing of You-Know-Who’s renewed strength? :::Shudder:::

Even more awkward if they’re constantly squabbling, or Harry-met-Sallying. Awkward for Harry, but entertaining for the reader!

Again, I’m not sure what you mean. Ron was Harry’s hostage, and Cho was Cedric’s. If Harry liked Ginny enough for her to be his hostage, Ron wouldn’t have been there at all, and Ginny wouldn’t have been anyone else’s hostage. So no configuration would have had both of them there. I did like the way the second task humanized Fleur; she’s not impressed enough with any of her admirers to go after them, but she can show love, to her family at least. As far as Cho, it seems that she thinks Harry is a cute kid, but just that, a kid. I had feared book 4 would involve her using him to get an advantage in Quidditch, but she appears to be kind as well as beautiful. So I guess Harry will have to ease off her like Ginny seems to have eased off him.

Also, I noted that Ginny seems more composed this year; not tongue-tied around Harry. The whole finding-dates sequence had me teary-eyed, but I especially liked Ginny implying that she’d accepted Neville’s offer because they both needed someone. Snif.

Also, Hermione oughta be slapped, or at least given a gentle nudge! Krum says tenderly, “You have a water beetle in your hair, Her-mon-ninny,” as he moves in for a clinch, and Hermione says, “Oh that, ugh. So anyway, wasn’t that exciting!” Not her exact words, but talk about a moment-killer!

Jeez, I sound like this is “Hogwarts Creek”!

14

I always thought there was something a little more Herod-like about Voldemort’s trying to kill Harry. Somehow I got that impression from the earlier books. Anyone have any evidence either way about that? I found the part in the first book where Hagrid is telling Harry the whole story, and he says, “You-Know-Who killed ‘em. An’ then - an’ this is the real myst’ry of the thing - he tried to kill you, too. Wanted ter make a clean job of it, I suppose, or maybe he just liked killin’ by then…” but I thought I remembered, in the finale of one of the first three books, learning that Voldemort had really sought Harry out. It’s a little late to go hunting out more references now, though…

Phouka, thanks for reminding me about Voldemort’s hints at how Harry is protected.

Rilchiam, I don’t think that Harry was protected at the Dursleys just because of the difficulty of concealing his murder from the Muggle world. That’s what Memory charms are for! The bad guys have no compunctions about Muggles noticing - there was, after all, the spectacle of the poor gamekeeper’s family the night of the Quidditch Cup. And, I think when Dumbledore is talking to Harry about the Memory Sieve, Dumbledore says something about how the Ministry was in chaos, trying to conceal from the Muggle world the evil done by the Deatheaters who enjoyed killing Muggles.

Anyway…it’s late, and I’m feeling like someone’s put a Memory Charm on my foggy brain…hope this is remotely coherent…

15

The mention of Hogwarts quidditch reminds me…anyone else peeved that there was no Qudditch Cup? It seemed unnecessary for me. I mean, the Triwizard Tournament had only 4 particpants, TONS more play quidditch. How sucky for all of them! Also, I get such a kick out of the quidditch matches.

16

I’m hoping that the reason for the gleam in Dumbledore’s eye is that he thinks this could be used against Voldemort. If it turns out Dumbledore is evil, I swear I’ll burn every copy of my Potter books.

Was anyone else bothered by the big, loose ends? For example:

–Voldemort is alive! And at full power.
–The Death Eaters are active.
–Lucuis Malfoy knows that Harry knows that he (Malfoy) is a Death Eater.
–Fudge is against Dumbledore’s plan to fight You-Know-Who, so he’ll probably remove Dumbledore as Headmaster.

Sending Harry back to the Dursley’s makes no sense. Voldemort has killed many Muggles before, so he’d have no compunction killing the Dursley’s (neither would I, for that matter). He’s also probably figured out what caused the wands to backfire, so he won’t fall for that trick twice.

Still, I really enjoyed the book. I got it Saturday afternoon, and read it almost non-stop until I finished Sunday night. I couldn’t put it down.

17

“The son of Potter must not become a jed–er, I mean, a wizard.” Obviously, James and Lily gave him problems–he probably figured he’d better kill Harry, just in case.

I suspect that Voldy has somehow opened a nice big gap in his armor by doing this. Now that he’s back in human form, it might be possible to destroy him altogether, and Harry would probably be the key; the connection between them works both ways.

I think he’s really reformed; his grudge against Harry is more jealousy and a carried-over resentment of James than evil. He’s a nasty old jerk, but he’s going to oppose Voldemort. Remember Voldemort’s reference to the one who betrayed him? He’s not gonna take Snape back alive.

They’re teenagers. Who knows what they’ll do?

Give 'em time. They’ll work it out somehow.

It’s a good thing I read that bit in the bathroom, OK?

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18

Rilchiam said a lot of stuff:

“I’m not sure you understood the question. The “gleam” in Dumbledore’s eyes was a straight-up Hitchcock moment; in fact, I still feel like I swallowed an icecube. I don’t know what it meant, and I don’t believe anyone is supposed to. That’s the hook that will get people into book 5 (anyone who needs further incentive, anyway). Dumbledore looking triumphant when hearing of You-Know-Who’s renewed strength?”

I will, at some point, re-read the entire book for little things I missed the first time. I’ve read 1 and 3 five times each, at least. 2 I haven’t read as many times b/c we lost our copy. I find I tend to see little but important details when I go back and read more carefully.

“Even more awkward if they’re constantly squabbling, or Harry-met-Sallying. Awkward for Harry, but entertaining for the reader!”

I don’t think Rowling would put us through that, yet. Although I would like to see how Hermione looks in her eyes. Also Ron.

“So I guess Harry will have to ease off her like Ginny seems to have eased off him.”

She might also have gotten over her initial obsession. When Ron first met Harry he was ape-shit over him. Same with lots of other people. Seems they get over the initial shock of THE Harry Potter.

“Also, I noted that Ginny seems more composed this year; not tongue-tied around Harry. The whole finding-dates sequence had me teary-eyed, but I especially liked Ginny implying that she’d accepted Neville’s offer because they both needed someone. Snif.”

I don’t like social situations, and I was pretty happy with how Jo Rowling handled the dance, though I didn’t even like that much. But I think Ginny should have asked Ron to ask Harry to ask Ginny to the dance. Ron would have told Harry she’d asked, then maybe Harry would have asked her anyway.

“Also, Hermione oughta be slapped, or at least given a gentle nudge! Krum says tenderly, “You have a water beetle in your hair, Her-mon-ninny,” as he moves in for a clinch, and Hermione says, “Oh that, ugh. So anyway, wasn’t that exciting!” Not her exact words, but talk about a moment-killer!”

Bit of a correction here . . . he pronounces her name “Her-mye-oh-ninny” not “Her-mon-ninny.”

19

Guy Propski said:

“Was anyone else bothered by the big, loose ends? For example:”

I think she used them to segue into the remaining books, and to keep things intertwined, rather than separated by book.

“–Voldemort is alive! And at full power.”

Well, not totally full power. He has a body, but he’s far from healed . . . or did I not read that part?

“–The Death Eaters are active.”

This will carry into the next few books.

“–Lucuis Malfoy knows that Harry knows that he (Malfoy) is a Death Eater.”

How do we know that? He (LM) and the other DEs might have been under spells . . . we know Malfoy does claim several times he was under a spell when he was doing the bidding of voldemort. Maybe he will do as much this next time.

“–Fudge is against Dumbledore’s plan to fight You-Know-Who, so he’ll probably remove Dumbledore as Headmaster.”

Doing that would require a full vote of all the members of the council, and there’s no way on Earth that’s going to happen. The members of the council knows Voldemort fears Dumbledore, and none of them could possibly have dealt as well with this whole 14-year period a well as he did.

“Sending Harry back to the Dursley’s makes no sense. Voldemort has killed many Muggles before, so he’d have no compunction killing the Dursley’s (neither would I, for that matter). He’s also probably figured out what caused the wands to backfire, so he won’t fall for that trick twice.”

But Dumbledore knows Harry’s been protected from Voldemort and such for a long time. Besides, the Dursleys make sure not to associate with anyone who is a witch, so it’s not like V knows the Dursleys. I doubt he even knows where harry lives, b/c there are probably some mad strong spells on Harry and the Dursleys.

20

iampunha–A few counterpoints (meant to be taken gently):

–My understanding was that Voldemort was back to full power. He needed a body to do that. Heck, even in weakened state he could kill Muggles.

–I doubt Lucius Malfoy can continue to use the “I was under a spell!” excuse much longer. He used it during Voldemort’s original reign of terror. Besides, former Death Eaters like Snape were not recalled.

–Lucius is on the council, and he was almost successful in removing Dumbledore in Book 2, IIRC. Malfoy could certainly sway them again, since Fudge stills trusts him (the big dope).

–How hard could it be for Voldemort to track down Harry back to the Dursleys? Couldn’t he follow the owls, or work some other kind of sorcery? That’s the problem with have magic as a plot device; you never know where the limits are.

I know Rowling has left a few threads open in past volume, but this time the unresolved part is very large. Sort of like the end of Tolkein’s “The Two Towers.” I guess what I’m really saying is, I can’t believe I’m gonna have to wait another two years! When I finished, I told my wife that I hoped Rowling had secretly finished book 5 and would publish it this fall.