***SPOILER!*** Harry Potter IV ***SPOILER!***

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Guy Propski said:

“–My understanding was that Voldemort was back to full power. He needed a body to do that. Heck, even in weakened state he could kill Muggles.”

Maybe we need to define “full power.” He’s now lost to a boy who hasn’t even taken an O.W.L. yet, and he’s lost twice. Up until page 600 or so of HP4 he couldn’t touch Harry.

“–I doubt Lucius Malfoy can continue to use the “I was under a spell!” excuse much longer. He used it during Voldemort’s original reign of terror. Besides, former Death Eaters like Snape were not recalled.”

Snape has reformed. As is obvious in the beginning of HP2, Malfoy is still doing dark things, or keeping them around. He sells several of his dark magic items to someone in that book, which is also the one in which his son Draco finds the candle visible only to its carrier.

The thing is, though, that few other than Dumbledore believe Harry’s story, so even though he say Lucius Malfoy there and heard him, it doesn’t mean anyone will take a 14-year-old boy seriously. They hadn’t before, even given his status as now the only person to beat Tom Riddle twice.

“–Lucius is on the council, and he was almost successful in removing Dumbledore in Book 2, IIRC. Malfoy could certainly sway them again, since Fudge stills trusts him (the big dope).”

LM went to far as to get him removed for a bit, but it wsa then revealed that he had threatened the safety of the families of some members. I doubt they’re going to fall for the sme thing twice.

“–How hard could it be for Voldemort to track down Harry back to the Dursleys? Couldn’t he follow the owls, or work some other kind of sorcery? That’s the problem with have magic as a plot device; you never know where the limits are.”

The thing is that good magic is evidently stronger than bad magic, or Harry would have died long ago. Beside that, Harry’s got Sirius, Remus Lupin, Dumbledore and the entire good magic wizarding people behind him, looking after his safety and that of the Dursleys. In any case, if a death eater got within striking range of the Dursleys, there’d be all manner of good wizards there in seconds, apparating and such. They all mostly went into hiding, anyway, and given the level of wizards in the muggle world, a wizard would spot a death eater.

“I know Rowling has left a few threads open in past volume, but this time the unresolved part is very large. Sort of like the end of Tolkein’s “The Two Towers.” I guess what I’m really saying is, I can’t believe I’m gonna have to wait another two years! When I finished, I told my wife that I hoped Rowling had secretly finished book 5 and would publish it this fall.”

I don’t! At this point I hope she’s taking a nice long break and resting. She’s got a 7-year-old daughter to take care of now.

22

Balance said:

“I suspect that Voldy has somehow opened a nice big gap in his armor by doing this. Now that he’s back in human form, it might be possible to destroy him altogether, and Harry would probably be the key; the connection between them works both ways.”

Oh, I like this idea!!

Balance also said:

“I think [Snape]'s really reformed; his grudge against Harry is more jealousy and a carried-over resentment of James than evil. He’s a nasty old jerk, but he’s going to oppose Voldemort. Remember Voldemort’s reference to the one who betrayed him? He’s not gonna take Snape back alive.”

Because of the parallels between James/Snape and Harry/Draco, I wonder if Draco will also grudgingly end up good??

And, no one answered my question earlier. Anyone else suspect that Fudge is playing for the wrong team? I think the next book is going to begin with the obligatory Dursley scenes (not that I don’t love them!) and then Harry will again escape to the Weasley’s house. What he’ll find there, though (after having been isolated from all wizarding world news at the Dursleys’) is that the wizarding world will be in total chaos and confusion. Fudge will have stalled long enough for it to be plain that Voldemort is consolidating his power.

Did anyone else notice how much more this book was like a screenplay? Descriptors were flying…for example, I don’t remember Snape ever having been describe before with long, greasy black hair - I’d sort of imagined him as the old Principal on Buffy, that kind of concentrated meanness. Seemed to me like the upcoming movie was very much on Rowling’s mind, and as though the casting was in a way taking place in this book.

Enough speculation from me! I’m in agonies until the next book comes. Did someone really say that it’s going to be two whole years?? I have been worried about good ol’ JK’s touring/speaking schedule and daughter and writing, but, if this book is any indicator, she seems to have overcome all that and the pressure of the media hype, too. Oh, well…her decision, our suspense!

23

Paradocs–re: screenplay–absolutely! When I was reading the description of the big duel between V and Harry, I kept thinking “This is right up ILM’s alley.”

I was really pleased to read on the IMDB yesterday that the film’s producers have restated their promise to only cast British actors. Whoever keeps suggesting Haley Joel Osment for the role of Harry should be thrown to the Whomping Willow.

The Harry Potter series is a first for me. I’ve read books series before, like LOTR, Oz, and so forth, but this is the first time I’ve started reading one while it’s still being created. I feel like I’m part of history.

No way is Draco going to become good! That kid is pure evil. I suspect that he and Harry are going to square off in Book 7.

24

Guy Propski, thus quoth,
“The Harry Potter series is a first for me. I’ve read books series before, like LOTR, Oz, and so forth, but this is the first time I’ve started reading one while it’s still being created. I feel like I’m part of history.”

This is such a cool thought. :slight_smile: I had been wondering, before I read this latest, how the series would stand up to time, and how much of people’s enjoyment of it was just due to the hype (not that that’s a bad thing, as long as it gets folks to read!) I don’t doubt anymore after this one; she’s just really good. And we’re watching it all happen!

“No way is Draco going to become good! That kid is pure evil. I suspect that he and Harry are going to square off in Book 7.”

Yeah, I suspect you’re right. However…can I still do a big NYAAA-HAH!!! if my WAG turns out to be right? :smiley:

25

Various things…

Will Draco end up good? I don’t think so. I’m not sure about a showdown between him and Harry in VII, though–Harry will be kind of busy with Voldy. I’d like to see Ron or Hermione or (best of all) Neville take him down.

I think Snape was described in Book I as having greasy black hair, but I’m not sure and don’t have the book with me. However, there was more of a “casting description” thing going on than before. I would love to see what ILM would do with that duel scene–it sounds perfect!

I don’t know about Fudge–“Never attribute to evil that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Remember, even Hagrid called him a bungler! Nevertheless, he’s done V more good than anyone except Wormtail…

Lucius Malfoy is already off the school board of whatevers–he’s no longer one of the twelve. I don’t think Fudge really has any say in the school’s internal affairs. Besides, would he really have the nerve to try to pry Dumbledore out of there? Things have gotten critical, and I don’t thing Dumbledore’s going to take much more crap off of anybody.

26

Ya know, I wasn’t gonna touch the Harry Potter series with a ten-foot pole if you paid me.

But all this talk about the whole damn thing has piqued my curiosity. Any book, or series of books, that provokes this much discussion about the characters and events has to be well-written and tell a hell of a story. Guess I’ll have to budget a couple bucks for the paperbacks and start reading 'em.

Thanks for nothing, you vicious bastards. wink

27

Olentzero–you’re welcome. I was pleasantly surprised by my first encounter with the books, because I hate hype. Turns out this justifies the hype.

I was happy to hear that Tim Roth is in the running to play Snape in the movie. I think he’ll nail the role. Maggie Smith is confirmed for Professor McGonigle and (I believe) Robbie Coltrane for Hagrid.

I forgot all about Neville! We certainly learned a bit about him in this book. He’s got the potential to really develop in the next few books.

I am also hoping that Rowlings decides that, after Hogwarts, Harry will have to attend some sort of magical University or grad school. 7 books won’t be enough for me!

28

the Guy dude said:

"I forgot all about Neville! We certainly learned a bit about him in this book. He’s got the potential to really develop in the next few books.

I am also hoping that Rowlings decides that, after Hogwarts, Harry will have to attend some sort of magical University or grad school. 7 books won’t be enough for me!"

  1. IMNSHO, Rowling deliberately has left Neville with lots ofroom to grow . . . I think the fact that his parents were so negatively affected by V/the death eaters will come into play in the future books.

  2. Rowling’s made it quite clear that the series will be 7 books: one of each year at Hogwarts. I don’t think there is any magic university or grad school . . . otherwise Percy would be at it, to say nothing of other graduates of Hogwarts.

  3. As for Draco ending up good . . . Lucius knows Harry knows he’s a death eater, so he may have his son fake being on the good side for a while to get close enough to Harry and maybe kill him, but I think Harry et all would be a bit suspicious of him for that . . . the plot thickens :slight_smile:

29

Oh, I know what Rowlings has said about the series, but I can dream, can’t I? After all, I’m still waiting for the new Doctor Who series.

Draco is such a weasel that I can’t imagine he could even fake being nice to Harry.

Was anybody else shocked by Cedric’s abrupt death? I had studiously avoided all pre-publication spoiler websites, so I didn’t know anything about the rumored death in the book. As I was reading it, my sister-in-law mentioned that rumor, but I assumed it was the one in the 1st chapter. Imagine my surprise when Cedric snuffs it without even being given a chance to react. He was a good kid, too.

30

Guy said:

"Oh, I know what Rowlings has said about the series, but I can dream, can’t I? After all, I’m still waiting for the new Doctor Who series.

You most certainly may NOT dream, Guy. Didn’t you get the memo to that effect?

“Draco is such a weasel that I can’t imagine he could even fake being nice to Harry.”

He might. He might also see a benefit to being nice to Harry . . . I dunno. He was at first.

“Was anybody else shocked by Cedric’s abrupt death? I had studiously avoided all pre-publication spoiler websites, so I didn’t know anything about the rumored death in the book. As I was reading it, my sister-in-law mentioned that rumor, but I assumed it was the one in the 1st chapter. Imagine my surprise when Cedric snuffs it without even being given a chance to react. He was a good kid, too.”

I had heard lots of people speculating on different deaths occurring, but none involving Diggory. He was a pretty minor character, and I think Rowling mainly brought him out in this book to make him more of an important figure. Just MO.

31

Didn’t you mean to say “ferret”? :smiley:

Not really. I knew trouble was coming at the end of the tournament (since Harry hadn’t managed to get himself killed yet), and that really obvious introduction of portkeys back at the beginning kind of tipped me off. I had hoped that Cedric would get out of it somehow, but I didn’t really expect it.

32

I have a question that’s been bugging me since the “mudblood” conflict came into play. Wasn’t Lily Potter technically a Muggle? Petunia thinks about how normal her childhood was until her sister Lily became a witch. If his mother was a “mudblood”, how can Harry be a “pure-blood” wizard?

33

Well, Lily definitely wasn’t a Muggle–she was a witch born to Muggle parents; that would make her a “mudblood” according to the nasties. I’m not sure what the pureblood criteria are; maybe just having two wizarding parents is enough?

34

Okay . . . Lily is part Muggle, same as Hermoine and probably a lot of other people. However, she’s also a witch/wizard person (and warlock is not the male version). I think James is also a muggle. The Malfoys are purebloods . . . and I think it’s because of Potter’s being a mudblood that Snape and the Malfoys hate mudbloods . . . just my NSHO.

35

Well, what Balance said. I’m sure the Malfoys and their ilk wouldn’t see Harry as a “pure-blood,” but neither of his parents were Muggles. In Harry’s case, I don’t think it really matters a lot. Famous people tend to not have any ethnicity or backgrounds. To make a Mugglish comparison, there are probably racists who like watching Shaquille O’Neal play basketball. Also, Harry’s parents are seen as heroes to most wizarding folk, with the notable exception of the Death Eaters, who dislike Harry anyway.

36

As I was rereading *Goblet of Fire[\i] this weekend, I thought about what I’d like to see happen further down the road. I’d truly love to see Perfect Prefect Percy fall under voldemort’s influence. I can just see it…Percy, who reveres his superiors and can’t think for himself, thinks he’s doing something Top Secret (and you can just hear the capital letters) for the ministry. Meanwhile, it’s Voldemort who is puling his strings, like the puppet he is, he won’t be bad, but he will be blind, which is just as bad. Percy will somehow deliver Harry to Voldemort (thinking he’s protecting him or something) and Harry has to get them both out of the clutches of Voldemort. It will be a maturing process for Percy, who’s blind faith in his superiors is a very dangerous thing.

StG

37

Shoot!

38

I hope nobody minds me bumping this back up to the top, but I just finished the book last night. One issue has occured to me and I figured I’d see what others thought.

In the duel between Harry and Voldmort, when the “ghosts” of the people Voldmord had slain were coming out of his wand I noticed something. The ghosts were supposed to have come out in reverse order - first Cedric, then the old groundskeeper (don’t remember the name), then Berta Jorkins and finally Harry’s father, then his mother.

But if Harry’s parents were killed in the way we’ve been told before, they should have shown up in reverse order to this.

What’s up here? Am I remembering wrong? Is there more to the death of Harry’s parents that we don’t know about? Or am I nitpicking?

FWIW - I hate the Dursleys.

39

I noticed that too when I read it. I was wondering why Harry’s father came out of the wand first. His mother should have came out first, then his dad. My guess is that Rowling made a mistake and the editors never caught it. Oh well.

Somebody earlier in the thread wanted to know why Voldemort killed his parents in the first place. I’ve been under the impression that Voldemort specifically showed up at his parents’ house that night to kill Harry. He only killed his parents because they were in the way. Maybe Voldemort could see far enough into the future to realize that the Potter’s offspring would be his undoing, so he decided to off the kid before he grew up. Of course, it backfired and he ended up very nearly killing himself.

Phouka, to answer your last question: I still giggle to myself just thinking about Draco being turned into a ferret and then being bounced all over the hallway.

40

The sequence of shaded nagged at me, too. Remember, though, that we don’t really have many details about that night–just Harry’s fragmentary memories and some comments by Voldemort. I don’t recall anything that would absolutely nail down the sequence of events. The information we have seems to impy that James died first, then Lily–certainly that’s the impression I got–but it could be retconned.

You might get something like this:
V shows up; James blocks his way and yells at Lily to run for it. V doesn’t want to risk them escaping, so he just knocks James out of the way, goes after Lily, and kills her. Then he turns and kills James, then tries to kill Harry.

Or maybe they were both killed with one spell–how many people can V affect with one Killing Curse?

I don’t think there’s anything in the books that makes these interpretations impossible, and (true or not) they keep the “shades problem” from bugging me.