I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who noticed. My first reaction was that this was a mistake on the author’s part, but considering how well she plans everything, I’m hoping that this is just a clue to be picked up on later. Part of me did want to yell at the characters "Didn’t you notice…?
I hate you guys! I just finished IV last week and now you’ve got me jonesing for more Harry Potter all over again!
I hope, for my own selfish reasons, that she won’t wait two whole years (meep!) before putting out another book, but at least we have movies to look forward to. I hope they don’t mess them up. I hope they cast decent people. I hope they get a restraining order against Robin Williams during the casting period. I hope Tim Roth does get Snape, he’s be perfect.
I was devastated when Cedric died. I kept expecting they’d be able to ressurect him somehow. I went the all the way to last page hoping against hope. Unlike most people, who thought him an insignificant, “minor” character, I’ve had a crush on Cedric since the first book. Darn, they went a killed off the most decent, noble, sniff, muscular, sportsmanlike, sob guys in the literary universe! He was so cute! Why, why did he have to die?!! I wish they had just left it at Daddy Crouch and let Cedric go! His whole life was ahead of him! So unfair!
And another thing: I, too, have a bone to pick with Her-my-oh-ninny over Krum. I thought Krum was cool, and she utterly ignored him. True, that was part of her charm for him, I’m sure, but give me a break. He was clearly nuts about her and she was being dense as a post. It was pretty funny to watch Ron act like an idiot, though. Sad to think that might have been the only reason Hermione went out with Krum in the first place, to make Ron jealous. Do you think we will see more of Fleur and Krum?
Ah, well, the next book is sure to have some kissing, right?
I’m embarrassed to admit that I didn’t attach any particular meaning to the reversed order of Harry’s parents appearing out of the wand. I thought it sounded like they kind of came out together, as a couple, so maybe the exact order wasn’t terribly important since they sort of died “together.” All the others that we saw had died individually, so there’s really no other example given where Voldemort killed two people more or less at the same time.
I was really bummed when “Mad-Eye” Moony started admitting to using the dark side of the force. He was one of my favorite character throughout the whole book. It was so nice to see somebody who really appeared to be on Harry’s side for a change (I know Dumbledore is, but he’s hardly ever around); I felt so betrayed! Even after it was revealed to be Barty Crouch Jr., I still thought it sucked, because now it’s like we don’t actually know anything about the real Mad-Eye; maybe he’s not even that cool. Argh!
Who else thinks that Brian Dennehy would make a great Mad-Eye Moony when they get around to making a movie out of IV???
That was the whole point, wasn’t it? Let’s face it, most of us didn’t really care skrewt-*&$% about Bartemious Sr. Cedric’s death had impact; Dumbledore’s speech highlighted that. It’s a rallying point for the students (with certain Slytherin exceptions).
Fleur will almost certainly be back–she wanted to work at Hogwarts to improve her English, remember? And Krum certainly has a reason to come back.
Remember, Barty questioned him under the Imperious Curse to find out how to impersonate him. He did it well enough to fool Dumbledore the whole time. I think we can say that the real Moody is much like what we’ve seen–probably more paranoid than ever now, though. I don’t know what role he’ll play in the future.
From Edwardina -
-(bolding mine)
I like that explanation! I’m gonna figure that’s what happened unless and until I hear otherwise.
About the order Harry’s parents come out of the wand (man that sounds weird): I thought she did it for dramatic effect. Harry’s father played a big role in Prisoner of Azkaban. I thought it was Lily’s turn to be the focus, albeit briefly.
Dumbledore’s gleam of triumph: My friend and I are speculating that while Voldemort thinks he has evened the playing field with Harry by taking his mother’s old magic, he really has given himself a weakness he isn’t aware of. Rowling has made a huge deal about the fact that Lily Potter saved Harry with love, and this love/magic is now cursing through Voldemort’s veins. This could be a problem for the Evil One.
I worry about Dumbledore. He had more play in this book than any other, he’s put himself right at the front of the battle against the Death Eaters and he’s old–he was a professor at Hogwarts when Tom Riddle was a student. This puts him in serious danger of dying. This will break my heart.
About Muggle-born witches. Lily’s definitely Muggle-born, just like Hermoine (geez, check out Aunt Petunia, after all). But since both of Harry’s parents were wizard/witches, he’s pureblood. (One presumes that if Hermoine were to marry a wizard, therefore, her children would be pureblood as well). Another interesting point is that Tom Riddle is half Muggle. He kills off his Muggle father and grandparents. His mother, a witch, seems to have disappeared (where the heck is she?) So Lucius Malfoy’s prejudice against the Muggle-born should include Voldemort although clearly it doesn’t.
Draco made one hell of a good ferret. I also really enjoyed the attack on the Hogwarts Express that left him and Crabbe and Goyle twitching and unconscious in the hallway.
Sorry to go on and on, but I could talk about this all day.
Re: the shadows from V’s wand - wasn’t what occurred is the joining of the 2 wands revealed the last things V’s wand had been used for? It struck me that he probably would have used his wand for something or other in the years between offing the Potters and whacking Cedric.
I also questioned whether Fudge was incompetent or evil.
Where do you all get the 2 year timetable? The last couple were just a year apart, weren’t they? I also seem to remember reading that JKR had the outlines, at least, of the entire series drawn up. Sound familiar to anyone else? If so, wouldn’t that be a nice situation to be in!
Substitute “the old guy” for Cedric.
First, a retraction: Voldemort did say in SS that he killed James first. He could’ve been lying, of course, but currently the “died together” theory seems most attractive.
Ceejaytee: Voldemort’s mother died either in childbirth or when he was very young (don’t recall which for sure), causing him to land in a Muggle orphanage.
Draco didn’t make a very good ferret–but he did make an excellent (if oddly shaped) toy ball!
Dinsdale: Voldemort didn’t have a body and couldn’t use a wand most of that time–he got his small body a little before he showed up at his father’s place. Presumably, he had no occasion to use his wand during the trip. From the screams and Bertha Jorkins’ shade, I assume that Wormtail used the wand to torture and kill Bertha.
Some little responses:
I just started reading the latest again. There is so much foreshadowing I didn’t catch! Disgusting how Voldemort teases Wormtail in the beginning that, “I will allow you to perform and essential task for me, one that many of my followers would give their right hands to perform…”
Somehow I thought Voldemort’s wand had become a shadow with him, and re-materialized with him when he stepped from the cauldron; that way he couldn’t have been causing too much mischief. Guess that can’t have been true, though, with Bertha Jorkins and the old Muggle. However, didn’t Voldemort renew himself in some way by killing Bertha Jorkins?
I definitely didn’t catch the order of Harry’s parents’ appearance. It WAS around 4 a.m. when I got to that part - I’m not too too embarassed about missing it. 
Like the explanation that Lily and James came out together!
Tom Riddle’s mother did die giving birth to him. Pg. 646 of HP IV. In skimming to find that, I found I’d also missed that Wormtail’s new hand is a dramatic silver! Will his Animagus now have silver claws?
I’m so glad to hear that Tim Roth might play Snape. I think we Dopers ought to figure out who WE would cast for all of the roles, in our infinite collaborative wisdom! Should we stick to the rule that it should be only British actors? I’m thinking Emma Thompson would do a perfectly ridiculous Professor Trelawney, though Helena Bonham Carter’s crazy hair is more suitable. Tim Roth is perfect for Snape. Ian McKellen as the voice of Voldemort? (He’s going to be Gandalf in the “Lord of the Rings” cinematization; I’m so excited!) Can’t think of any more off the top of my head!
…though perhaps I wouldn’t wish the roles on any of those actors. Anyone else nervous that the director is going to screw it all up disastrously?!
I read the book. Then I immediately re-read it (1. I’m pathetic. 2. I’ve nought else to read.).
First you people are missing so many things. You’re looking at it all wrong. Dumbledore’s eyes gleemed because Voldemort’s given himself a weakness! Why else? Love doesn’t sit well with a being of almost pure evil.
Voldemort went to the Potter’s home to kill Lily and James. They were powerful good sorcerors set against him. He tried to kill Harry because Vold’s a rat BASTARD. He was doing it so that Lilly and James would suffer. He’s a mean fucker, and that’s all. Unfortunately, Lilly sacrificed herself for Harry, and the curse rebounded on voldemort.
I don’t know about the reversal of Lilly and James’ shades. It doesn’t fit with the rest of it. Maybe Lilly sacrificed herself for harry, denying Voldemort the chance to kill her because she was already dead. V then killed James, then died trying to kill Harry.
Big loose ends? She’s setting up the plot of the next book! Whereas each PREVIOUS book left us with a finished plot, nothing to really think about to continue with the next one, these big threads (V’s return, etc) are leaving us with something to gnaw on while she writes number five.
Snape is reformed. Dumbledore trusts him. Whatever Snape did to convince him must have worked. He didn’t return to V, V is planning to kill him (the one who betrayed me). He hates Potter not because Potter killed V, but because Snape hated James. He hated James in much the same way Draco hates Harry. Sirius sent Snape to the house that Lupin spent his wolf-times at, but James rescued him. The only conflict is that Snape rescues Harry in book I because of James rescuing Snape. BUT Snape hates James because he thinks that James was in on the prank… So which is it, does Snape think James tried to kill him, or does he think James saved his life?
And Krum called Hermione “Herm - own - ninny” though she explained it as “Her my oh knee”
And the reason she brushed him off is because she likes Ron, and he likes her (they’re just shy, and stupid).
I’m betting Krum and Fleur get together.
And Harry, Hermione, and the Weasly’s should become animagi. (I envision Harry as a wolf… Just because. Hermione as an owl. I don’t know about Ron. hehe, the Creevy’s would be leeches).
I was confused by V living in an orphanage, yet killing his family, until it was explained that his mom died in childbirth, his dad left him in an orphanage and got remarried and had another son. Then Riddle killed dad, stepmom, half-brother.
I didn’t notice the “what most would give their right hand for” until my second reading.
As to the powerful magic used to protect Harry. My first guess was a secret keeping spell with Dumbledore as the secret keeper. Rememer that from book three? But I don’t know if the secret spell is universal or selective. Is everyone unable to find the spellbound or just a certain person (Voldemort)? But it was ancient magic… Probably more subtle, like making the house unplottable.
Now, why didn’t Harry and the weasleys take Malfoy, Crabb, and Goyle up to a teacher and tell them what Malfoy had said? “You’re playing for the wrong team, chose the wrong friends” etc.
Fudge didn’t seem too evil, just unbelieving, officious, and stupid. He could just be a good actor, though.
Who suggested that non-British actors take roles? That’s the dumbest damn thing I’ve ever heard!
Not only had Hagrid and Maxime made up at the end, they were being sent to the giants as envoys, to try and head off Voldemort, keep him from using them as troops. Who better than a half giant?
How will Dumbledore deal with the dementors, keep them from releasing the prisoners in Azkaban?
Voldemort’s telling Wormtail all about his various weaknesses bothered me. What evil person would EVER admit to weakness and describe them in detail to a treacherous underling?
How will Percy react to knowing that he’s been taking orders from someone under the Voldemort’s control?
What will the goblins to to Bagman?
I move that Fudge be removed as Minister of Magic and Arthur Weasly put in his place.
I think they should make more marauder’s maps and use them as defense for hogwarts. You can’t apparate on school grounds, so they have to come in in a more mundane manner, and the maps would detect them, and they’d get nailed. Right? (I do think about things that have almost no bearing on plot, yes)
I wonder if the Weasly’s should open a joke shop, or if they should work on designing magical weapons to use against the Death Eaters. If they can use creams to turn people into giant canaries, imagine what they could do if you gave them handguns.
Potter IV nearly made me cry at the end, when Mrs. Weaselly gave Harry his first “mother” hug.
And Cedric’s death was the ultimate expression of Voldemort’s disregard for life… “Kill the spare.” It’s ignoring people like that, however, that could cause him some serious trouble.
I was discussing Potter with a school librarian today, and I was thinking about an intra-Hogwarts war.
Under normal conditions, I would expect it to be Slytherin vs. Griffindor, with the other two Houses split. The Hufflepuffs, despite many good qualities, might bend under pressure like Wormtail, and the Ravenclaws, well, morality and intelligence don’t always go together.
But with the murder of Cedric, every Hufflepuff would line up against Voldemort.
As to the controversies in this thread:
Gleam of triumph:
Remember, when one wizard saves anothers life, there’s a powerful bond. V now owes Harry his life, and so does Wormtail.
The Durseleys:
As has been said, V says Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic to protect Harry when he lives with relatives. The real question is why he didn’t come after Harry at the Weasely’s.
The shades:
According to Hagrid in the first book, (just reread it today) V’s curse took out the Potter’s frickin’ HOUSE. After that I assumed that it was sort of a big blast that annihilated all but Harry.
Why kill Harry?
In the first book, Harry asked Dumbledore that and the big man said there was a reason, but Harry wasn’t ready to hear it yet.
More Maps:
The only known map was created by 4 people, 1 dead and 1 evil. They may not be able to replicate it. Also, it seemed implied that it was a not quite wholesome bit of magic. Remember, Moony, Padfoot, Prongs and Wormtail weren’t well known for following rules.
Snape:
Snape is definitely one of the good guys. Dumbledore trusts him. That’s good enough for me. I think he hates James for being a part of the prank, and then even more for calling it off. If he’d done it, and survived, he might have been able to make some friends. Instead he was saved by the authority figures and made more of an outcast.
I think Snape become a Deatheater because ultimately the only friends he could find were people like that, who’ll accept any loser. (think the Klan) If Sirius and his crowd had shown Snape some compassion, he might be a better person.
–John
I forgot all about that.
I think I’ll reread the series. Again. And take notes.
::wandering away with a mad gleam in his eye::
OH!! I didn’t remember that part about Why Kill Harry?, either. I KNEW there was something more Herod-like about it. I think Voldemort could see into the future enough to know that the kid would cause him problems, went after him, and it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think Snape HAD friends, in his Mudblood-hating Slytherin way. Dumbledore told Harry at some point that Snape and James were just like Harry and Draco. That’s why I suspect something will happen to Draco to instill a change of heart, or at least plunk him, snarling, on the right side. Rowling is too fond of patterns (though it’s hard to decipher them when you’re in the middle!) to let this one go.
And Wormtail is just feeling too miserable; he’s going to snap on Voldemort at some point.
And then I like the idea behind Dumbledore’s gleam and Voldemort’s new vulnerability.
Let’s see…she’s got three more books left? How about if Wormtail snaps in V, Draco goes good in VI (or maybe V, since there would be the same suspense as with Snape, wondering whether he’s good or not), and Voldemort will of course have to expire at Harry’s hand in VII (possibly along with the faithful readers, heartbroken over no further installments?)
BTW, why didn’t Harry check the map sooner and more frequently so he would have caught the false Mad-Eye Moony?? End of story, I guess, but…yeesh… Shouldn’t Harry just mount the Sneak-o-scope conveniently on his body, like on the rim of his glasses, and check the map every five minutes or so? Wouldn’t that help with some of these edge-of-chair moments??
oooh fun thread
What worries me, especially in regards to the gleam in Dumbledore’s eye, is that the entire danger in this book was created because Mad-Eye Moody was brought to Hogwart’s, without him it wouldn’t have happened, and Dumbledore brought him there. Yet Harry’s godfather reacted positively to that.
Does it seem suspicious to anyone else how Dumbledore seems to know everything that goes on, and seems to leave things for Harry to find (sending him the Invisibility Cloak, leaving out the sieve, etc.) that guide him along the path, yet he doesn’t jump in to prevent problems.
I am not convinced that the fake Moody was the loyal servant that Voldemort was referring to, he seemed ~too~ eager, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he was just a lackey and someone who was more skillful were the inner circle member referred to, and perhaps getting rid of the unstable subordinate was just part of the task.
My friend, who is perhaps less cynical, thinks Dumbledore may be deliberately getting Harry into trouble, watching to see that it doesn’t go too far, and helping him out behind the scenes, as a way of training him or molding him. Or maybe he’s willing to risk losing Harry for the potential gain of strengthening him.
I definitely think Dumbledore has ~some~ hidden agenda, but it may well be a good one. But whether or not Harry will like it, that I can’t begin to guess at. I really look forward to the rest of the series. And hey, maybe after he graduates she’ll decide to write about his life in the “real world”, we can hope 
I was surprised though at how dark this book was for a series aimed partly at children. This is not shaping up to be a series for children. And I hope that the next book isn’t quite so simplistic, Harry gets into trouble, the teacher of Dark Arts is likely the problem, solve problem, get rid of evil guy. But the way IV was shaped it seemed to be getting into a much more complicated world, and I like that. I think V will rock
Oh, and was anyone else vastly disturbed that Harry could send an owl with a message to his godfather. Even a random school owl. Can’t someone track him down if they can just send an owl? How ~do~ the owls find people? Why can’t they be tracked? shrug Magic I guess.
Oh, and I’m following Surgoshan out, planning to do the same, and hoping he’ll share his crib notes with me.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add this… and where is the map now? Who has it?
And Harry can’t just check it all the time because it’s not really allowed, so he can’t risk a teacher finding it and confiscating it. I also imagine making them isn’t standard magic, so mass producing them wouldn’t be easy, especially with some of the originators gone. Besides, eep lack of privacy if everyone had them.
I know, I know. I was bein’ silly about the map, Surel. I don’t REALLY want all the tension and excitement to go away.
I’m with your friend. Dumbledore is good; just has a hands-off libertarian-type style to let Harry develop into a strong and resourceful enough wizard to beat Voldemort in the end. Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I think it’s Fudge we have to worry about. Kind of like Gandalf vs. Saruman? Hmmm…except Fudge doesn’t really seem all that powerhungry. Oh, well, I’m just making things up at this point.
Balance, well, at least between killing Bertha, the old guy, and Cedric, neither V nor Wormy used the wand even to stir soup? Harry’s wand revealed that it had been used to raise V’s mark, so the effect apparently isn’t limited to lethal uses.
Also, just read it once, pretty quickly, and have no intention of reading it again soon (it’s a good book, nothing more or less, and there are plenty of other good books out there). But was there ever any explanation about the family that died at the beginning? Certainly suggested some magical circumstances. I kind of assumed V and his supporters had killed them before he caught the rebound off of baby Harry, but I’m not sure if that was ever set out.
And I repeat my query, what is the basis for the assumption that the next book is 2 years away?
It’s certainly not limited to lethal–or even just offensive–spells; remember the shadow of Wormtail’s new hand coming out of it? As for using it once V had a body again–well there’s a chaotic bit there with a bunch of stuff happening; some of it was recognizable, like the hand, or the screams from the Cruciatus Curse, or the shades, but any number of spellshadows might have gone unnoticed by Harry in the heat of the moment. I doubt the wand saw much use, though–V was too weak to do much magic, and I can’t see him letting Wormy use his wand for anything trivial (now that he has it back). I suspect he just made Wormy do everything by hand <ouch!>
The family at the beginning was Tom Riddle Sr’s family–probably very early targets for Voldemort. Odds are he just showed up and zapped them with the avedas kedavra (the description fits that spell), possibly even before he started gathering followers.
Does anyone think we can keep this thread going until the next book (or the movie) comes out?
To clarify what Balance said about the Riddles (it was dead on, but maybe not perfectly clear), in Potter 2 we discover that Voldemort’s real name is Tom Marvolo Riddle. His father was a Muggle named Tom Riddle that deserted his (V’s) mother when he (V’s dad) found out she was a witch. (Marvolo was his grandfather on his mother’s side, though that’s irrelevant.)
V blamed his father for his mother’s death soon after. He killed the family in the beginning because they were his father and grandparents, who he hated.
–John