I guess some people are still upset over the election results.
SHOCK VIDEO: WHITE MAN KIDNAPPED, GAGGED, BEATEN BY RACIST BLACK ANTI-TRUMP GANG
"The victim is repeatedly kicked and hit, his scalp is cut, all while he is tied up with his mouth taped shut. The suspects on the video can be heard yelling, “F*** Donald Trump! F*** white people!”
Crickets!
But let a prankster scrawl a swastika somewhere and let the outrage commence.
I bet if those four were white, they’d still be alive.
So when confronted with the actual contents of the reports that you cited as hate crimes collected by the SPLC that are a) not hate crimes and b) not veified you fall back to snark. Got it. That seems to be your usual response when presented with facts that contradict your thesis.
Slee
Wow–I thought I’d explained it clearly, but it seems there’s work to be done.
SPLC is collecting data on hate incidents. Some of those incidents are criminal. Some of them are not criminal. They do not call the list a list of hate crimes. They call it a list of hate incidents. Since some of them are crimes, it is fair to say they are collecting incidents of hate crimes, even though not all of them are hate crimes. The one you cited was not a hate crime. Others are hate crimes.
That, I believe, is clear enough for anybody, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you’ll still not accept it.
As for the terrible hate crime cited by PCP, of course it’s horrifying. octopus predicts crickets. It’s front page at Washington Post. Hopefully he’ll reexamine some of his beliefs based on that.
It’s a top story on every major news site I read this morning, so those are some loud-ass crickets.
I mean the outrage on this site. Of course it made the news but we don’t have a 200 post thread about how hateful this is while bakers not making cakes stir great passion. I wonder if it will be treated as a racist incident or a hate crime though?
So your complaint is just about this site? I condemn the incident – if enough liberal Dopers also condemn this incident, does this assuage your concern?
The facts as I have seen them so far leads me to believe it could be a hate crime. The hate component seems to be tied to the election.
In addition, if a Democratic Presidential Nominee supported the notion of mistrusting white immigrants from Europe and Canada and made statements that would inflame prejudice against whites, both immigrant and non-immigrant alike, there wouldn’t be a chance in hell I would support them and I certainly wouldn’t make any attempt whatsoever to minimize the threat these whites would feel while living in such a political environment.
I didn’t know about it until a couple of hours ago, so I apologize for keeping you in suspense. But yes, my personal conviction is that black people torturing a white disabled person while saying “fuck white people” is a terrible thing, and the perpetrators deserve to be punished severely. And yes, it sounds to me like a hate crime.
I’m sure many of my fellow posters will be along soon to disagree vehemently and explain why it’s actually perfectly okay and not a bad thing, so I just wanted to go on record before we reach the 200 post mark.
I’m gonna wait 'til a bunch of other people condemn this so I can join those accused of only having the position because we’ve been embarrassed into it!
CMC fnord!
From the same article: “Although President-elect Donald Trump was mentioned, Chicago Police do not believe the crime was politically motivated.” More recent reports say the Chicago PD believes the crime wasn’t racially motivated, either, and the victim may have been the target of an extortion scheme.
Unfortunately this just feeds my unease about the hate crime concept and its application, because it really is difficult to imagine that if it were four white suspects yelling “fuck Barack Obama” and “fuck black people” while torturing a black victim, there would be any serious debate over whether it was a hate crime, extortion scheme or not.
I’d say that the victim apparently knew one of his attackers complicates things.
Ah, I see the problem. If I teach you how to start a thread, you can start one instead of complaining about how nobody’s started one, right?
First, I’ll see if you can figure it out on your own; but if you need help, please let me know.
I suspect it won’t reach 200 posts, though, for this reason: nobody’s gonna come in defending these mofos. When there’s a thread about bigot bakers, it reaches 200 posts because you have people who will actually defend the bigots.
Everyone’s in agreement about these guys, though.
(Edit: to be clear, everyone agrees these guys are terrible and should face sanctions for their terrible behavior. When the police are saying it may not be a hate crime, despite how it appears, I’m willing to reserve judgment, as I’ve done in other cases; I’ll hear their explanations.)
Everyone’s in agreement on this being a hate crime ?
Again: no. The police are not. I find that very surprising, but I believe the proper response is to examine their reasons for doubting its hate crime status, instead of shouting extra loudly that it is.
It very well may be that they’ll decide it’s a hate crime after all; it very well may be that they decide it’s not, and that I’ll disagree. What’s not in doubt is that the torture itself was a serious crime and should be treated as such.
It would be ridiculous to insist that all lay people agree it’s a hate crime now, when the police themselves (hardly inclined to be lenient on young black people) make no such claim.
The issue is that there seems to be a lot more hesitance in declaring apparently-racist crimes by blacks against whites to be racially motivated, as compared to the converse.
And the suspicion - or at least mine - is that this is politically motivated. There are many people who are strongly committed to a worldview in which white racism against blacks is very common and a Huge Deal, while black racism against whites is extremely uncommon and/or not a big issue. So there’s a strong motivation for such people to play up any ostensible racism against blacks and downplay ostensible racism by blacks against whites.
[The fact that a major national organization like the SPLC is tracking incidents of kids being called racial epithets is otherwise astonishing, but consistent with the above.]
This x 2017
I think this is likely “politically” motivated as well (politics is a very broad category), but I think the reasoning for political motivation is generally reasonable – there is a huge and massive history in the US, even in recent decades, of anti-black brutality being an enormous influence on daily life for large numbers of black people, and no history of anti-white brutality being a significant influence on any more than a tiny number of white people’s daily lives. Just as we might perk up and be a little more suspicious, for valid reasons, for example, of vandalism of a synagogue vice a Catholic church in Germany.